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+1 to what Hans said about a burst! I'm a huge fan of vintage Gibsonesque bursts with the little light spot and black shoulders - my favorite!

There was a time on the OLF that a "burst" was not unlike a swear word.... Mention a burst and everyone automatically assumed that you messed up something and have to now cover it up..... I used to call them burst bigots...

One of my first scratch builds the sides were bent on a pipe and I burned the hell out of one of them. It wouldn't sand out either so about 5 years ago that guitar was used for target practice in the back yard.... Love the noises that they make if you hit them right...

Nick your opinion is just as valuable to me as anyone else's here - we are all mortal... well most of us are....

For me the extra slat is for two reasons but certainly not required. I've suspected for a long time now that bending blankets are a bit on the fragile side internally and as such I did not want my bending machine cauls to bear directly on the fragile blanket. I also know that heat rises and even with a top slat will rise too but although I have never tested it my hunch is that a third slat over the blanket when the blanket is at the top of the stack may redirect some heat downward speeding up the process a bit. Who knows though.

Nick's right in my view too that thicker sides are not a bad thing. Some of the most expensive guitars on the planet (Somogyi) have double sides that are VERY stiff with the idea being that the rim is not unlike a drum and then of course the top and back plates are the business end of the instrument. I've had the pleasure of playing two Somogyi instruments, certainly among the best sounding instruments that I have ever played.

Nothing wrong with thick ribs if you can get away with it. Most mandolin builders use thin ribs, but I have found a way to bend 'em thick and I think it may make a fatter tone. There I go speculating again...
I wish I had a 3rd slat because my blanket is wearing from pulling the bending cleats over it. I just haven't had much luck with guitar ribs over .090". But then, I don't make sack dress guitars either. Most of my waists are pretty tight.

I will look up how thick his ribs were at to see how thick I can go. This is a learning build so I plan on these few guitars will not be perfect, and for me, that just fine. When I build the next batch of guitars they will be better and the next after that better than that and so on.

Sunburst , ok I didn't plan on it but it's time to start looking at the procedure. I was thought about dyeing the wood somehow. I have some Japanese calligraphy ink just staring at me, daring me to make a stupid move. Don't know if I have the balls to do it. Do you guys know if I can still FP with a sunburst finish offhand before I delve into further research?

Again thanks for the replies Johan Hesh and Nick.

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美智え

Well I bend on a Stewmac bending iron. I used to bend over a candle. Yep that's right a candle. So an iron to me is tall cotton. Soak the sides in water 48hrs before I bens and have a spray bottle handy. Because I bend on an iron I am closer so can watch for burns. However I have some Maple ordered out and can see how the light color would be very sensitive compared to EIR or walnut etc. Glad I had this thread to read as I'll be particularly careful with the lighter maple.


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It's been about 6 months since I bent any sides, and quite frankly after reading this thread I had trouble remembering where I put the heating blanket in my sandwich. Anyway, I have followed an early Todd Stock video, and my sandwich consists of bottom slat (spring steel), aluminum foil layer, kraft paper soaked in water, side wood, wet kraft paper, aluminum foil layer, heating blanket, and top slat. In a more recent video by Todd, I noticed that he now places his heating blanket between two slats so that the blanket is not against the aluminum foil liner, but now between two slats (he uses a total of three slats). This obviously protects the blanket from the bending cauls, and perhaps protects the wood from scorching as well. I've had no problem with the former set-up except that I did burn one side of leopard wood (was paying attention and let the temp get to high). Most of the burn sanded out, but it is a dark wood. Until I encounter a real problem (I'll be bending some maple in next couple of weeks), I'll continue to use the sandwich with the blanket below the upper slat, since I feel it protects the blanket. Just my 2 cents. I should say, I also thickness my sides to around 0.09 inches before bending and typically bend within a temp window of 250 to 300 F. Lonnie, I admire anyone who can bend with a candle.

I had recently did some searching around and per chance had discovered cold bending which is very interesting. Never had any experience or knowledge with it but I thought I would say it just in case some one else wanted to further look into it.

FYI the maple bent very easily with a little water even at the thickness they were at, no faults except my burn in the second set which is probably my error.

So here's the news. I did some homework in the traditional technique used for Koto preparation. I knew that this technique would burn too hard and fast against the wood to create the desired effect. So I tried to create a new technique to get a similar style. I made a thick wick candle with a small amount of oil in the wax. I then used the smoke and gently used the flame and smoke of the candle to create soot on the bent side. Rubbed the soot in the wood then shellac one thin coat to hold the soot on it. Used the same pad to spirit off the middle areas with the intention of create a sunburstish (new word) effect. Or maybe a weathered effect you might call it. I chose this over the gunpowder since... Well... it is freaking gunpowder. I hope it looks ok and hopefully does not look too childish looking. Opinions on it are appreciated. I did not have the experience or tools to do a sunburst and I thought I would share this experience as I learned a lot from trying to hide this mark.

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To be honest I had no choice except to bend with a candle. I made three little 4 string mandolins about 25 years ago. Bent all wood over a candle. Actually it's not that difficult a thing to do. Just opposite of bending over an iron. I restored a couple of guitars two years ago had to replace the binding on one. Used Macassar Ebony and bent it over a candle.


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That is a pretty cool looking antiqued effect. I can imagine that looking nice with a slightly tinted lacquer or shellac finish and a stark white top. You're going to have to do the back now to match...

Looks awesome! Can't wait to see the finished product.

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Pat

I was unsure of how i should approach the back. My original plan was for the whole guitar to be a light natural wood. This will provide a lot of contrast to the top now which is a plus. I was thinking of trying to leave the back also either untouched or maybe just around the edges "soot effect" and blend it to the natural in the center, although that might be harder than it sounds and i may mess it up by trying it.

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I don't look for smoke since steam is always rising out. But I do use my nose. I happen to be very sensitive to burnt anything. And wood charring (as we all know) has a very distinctive smell.

For the future.

I switched to two blankets years ago after seeing one of John Mayes' first videos. That plus the brown paper were game changers. From the bottom--

Blanket/Slat/Paper/Wood/Paper/Slat/Blanket/Slat.

Slats are wrapped in foil.

I'll echo those who said never put the blanket directly against the wood.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Do you think your technique would work if the top blanket/slat were not included?

My "stack" is - block form, slat, blanket, wood, kerf kore , clamps. I put the blanket to the inside of the wood. If there is any scorching it will be on the inside of the side. If It's an oily wood (cocobolo) I will wrap the side in paper to catch the resin that boils out. I bend hot and fast, let it cool, reheat briefly,cool, then bend the next side. After both are bent I remove the blanket and slat and rest both sides (one on top of the other) between the block form and kerf kore.

Michiyuki,
I like what you did with the candle.

I did it that way for about 5 years and had a few cracks with mahogany and maple but no problems at all since changing to two blankets.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I know where you got your blanket, but where did you get your slats?

LMI. Blue Spring Steel. Was a considerable saving for me over any other US supplier and no one over here was remotely interested in supplying me with such a small amount. (Just got to think of some good rust protection for them. Would've been nice to have stainless spring steel.)

Best,
Nick

Some guys use Aluminum slats that you can buy at the hardware store for roofing. Not that i am saying anything is better just thought i would throw that out there for you if you are in a bind.

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Yeah, I wanted spring steel for ease of assembling the stack, etc... I can just see it being a nuisance using slats that have already conformed to a shape. More consistent support too, I'd have thought.