Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm sorry things devolved to the point that members had to be banned, but I'll be glad if the result leads to the forum rules being more carefully observed.

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George :-)

Lance, good to hear the surgery situation is fine and sorry steps like this need to be taken. I hope someone dope slaps me good (and in enough time to head me off) if I ever get going.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I'm relatively new to this site and to guitar building. I've been studying and learning from past posts on this site for the past nine months or so as I set up my shop at home and started building. This site is an amazing resource with an wealth of wisdom generously provided by many builders with a wide range of experience, ideas, and clever solutions to problems and a willingness to help out with advice. I've participated in a number of guitar-related forums and this is one of the best both for content and general atmosphere. Aside from the posts of one person in particular (not Todd), the vast majority of the posts are positive, helpful, and insightful. A number of times, I've done the digital version of taking notes many times by copy-pasting parts of posts into a summary file for future reference. I think that politics, religion, and other non-guitar-related hot button issues have no place on a forum like this. Those discussions are invariably no-win situations for everyone. A significant portion of the "how to" information that I've found helpful on this site was in posts by Todd so I think it would be a shame to lose those as an outcome of that thread that apparently got out of hand. Like a lot of other forum members who have provided their experience, he invested his time and effort to write helpful posts that were an important part of the entire body of accumulated knowledge on this site. Hopefully, a way can be found to keep the resource that this site provides to both new and old-hand builders intact.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Whenever someone says this, I remember something from long ago. One of my favorite movies is "No Time for Sergeants," starring Andy Griffith. Lots of you older guys no doubt know about it, but did you know it was based on a book of the same name by Mac Hyman? Here is a bit that didn't quite make it word for word into the movie. It is at the beginning, when the government men come to flush Will (Andy Griffith) out of the Georgia mountains for being a draft dodger. This is the conversation between Will and his Pa:

[Pa:] "So the thing is to do just what Jesus would have done, ain't it?"
"Yessir," I said. "That's a good idea. Now I was thinking..."
"Well, do you know what He would have done?"
"Nossir, but..."
"Well, I do," Pa said. "I know what He would have done all right. If a man come riding up on His property and scared His chickens half to death and didn't say Howdy or nothing, and then went around saying folks couldn't read, I know what He would have done all right. He would have sent that man straight to hell, by God!"

That still cracks me up!

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

That's hilarious!!

Gee... I didn't read the offending thread at all, because I didn't have much interest in the subject. Had I known there was so much drama, I would have followed the thread with interest, and perhaps posted my own comments.

As for Todd's politics - be glad I don't speak up often, because I am so far to the right politically, that Todd might have seemed a moderate.

As for everything seeming to turn political.... that's the signs of the times, folks. In that, all of Washington's little elected and appointed pains in the posteriors are extremists of one kind or the other. Deal with it.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

+1. I don't envy the position Lance was placed in. Someone has to maintain a standard, and do the distasteful work.
Keep in mind that there is no one else except Lance that shares this responsibility, and I would not want to make these decisions.
Add to that the fact that on any other forum I'm a member of, they are governed with a much heavier hand than this place.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

deleted gibberish -- TapaTalk version of a pocket dial!

Woops!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

deleted gibberish -- TapaTalk version of a pocket dial! At least you know what thread I read last.

Now ... y'all just carry on.

I don't know the particulars of the outcome, not my business. But I will say that in my opinion, it was right for Lance to step in on this one. Lines were crossed that should never have been approached, and things were said in ways that only made things worse, even if in jest. I have seen a fair share of posts on this forum that turned political, but this was the first one that got so bad even the goat pics were ignored. That particular thread was spiraling out of control, and someone needed to apply the brakes.

Just my observation, for what it's worth.

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

I didn't see the "ivory thread" go bad, but I have not been able to avoid seeing how the general attitude of this place has changed over the last few years, and not for the better. If kicking a few of these folks out means Lance is going to see to it that the forum rules are followed, I'm all for it. Hopefully it can bring back some of the real pros, and make room for some interesting discussions about guitars and whatnot, without the politics.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

What's the only thing that goes well with politics?

Arguments...

(you can quote me on that)

Cheers,
Bob

Without a doubt the most frustrating thing about this forum is the disappearance of some amazing builders. I've have discussed it with a couple and they just were fed up with the crap from a few individuals who frankly made political firebrands of themselves. Hate to see anyone banned but the time had come. IMO. Tim

Perhaps a friendly rebuke , rather than being ostracized might have worked better.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

Perhaps repeated warnings had been given and ignored. Not that I know, just a thought.

...on the other hand, a day without the Padma feels pretty good, actually

I haven't been posting long, but I've been here on an almost daily basis for the last 4 years. I've spent tons of time here, lurking and learning, and the time spent has payed off as I've begun building my first. I come here to learn about guitars. I don't care one bit about any of your personal political leanings, and I don't care to hear about them. I care about whether or not you contribute to the community here in a valuable way, and further the goal we all share of building better guitars.

Several threads recently have become contentious due to political/religious comments, or from members being downright rude to each other.
There's no reason for it. Given that the median age here, judging from the recent roll calls, is in the 50's, I'm surprised and disappointed in the childish behavior I've seen lately. I think Lance does a great job of letting us police ourselves, and it's pretty sad that he had to step in and ask folks to leave. I didn't always agree with Todd's attitude or personal beliefs, but it's a loss to every one of us that the knowledge and expertise he shared is gone now. Hopefully this isn't permanent. Either way, it should be a wake-up call to the rest of us. This is a great community, the best I've found online, and I want it to stay that way. Leave the politics and religion at the door, treat others here with the same respect you want to be treated with, and let's get back to the business of learning how to make better guitars!

Zac Stout

A day without political content on the OLF is a good thing.

A day without valuable knowledge being added to the OLF is a bad thing.

My $0.02, here's the soap box back.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

AM I missing something, I've always thought this was Lances "Sand Box" and the rest of us are visitors!.
I don't post much but have always thought of my self as a guest and try to act that way when I do post.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

Isn't the above quote close to a personal attack? It is so easy to read these faceless threads, to use words so boldly when if we were in the presence of each other, we would be much more polite.

I did not see the thread so am totally in the dark about what transpired in it. I think we all need to take a step back, go back and read our own posts and I think we will quickly see how some of the things we have posted could be taken wrong or misinterpreted. That can happen so easily on these forums.

I personally hope Lance can find a way to rectify this problem and lets all hug and make up!

Mike

That very well may have happened behind the scenes.

Having been around here since day 1, I've seen very few people actually booted from the OLF. I'm happy to call Lance a friend even though we've never met. I think his rules are very simple and fair.

I don't feel bad for the guys who can't simply put their political opinion aside to attend here.

I never looked at the ivory thread. Knowing that Hesh started it and how many times over the years Hesh & Todd have butted heads, it's not surprising to hear it got out of control.

The OLF will survive just fine without Todd folks. Yes he was a very great contributor but he's not the only one. The archives are full of great tutorials and there are several other locations on the net to find pretty much everything that's ever been posted here.

Lance, good to hear all is well with you and Teressa!! May she heal quickly.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Thank you Lance for providing and looking after this wonderful forum. I learn a ton from this place.

Some threads should be locked after the first post. Especially those where people have strong views and the government is involved. It is nice to have the information, but the added commentary so often goes astray.

"Given that the median age here, judging from the recent roll calls, is in the 50's, I'm surprised and disappointed in the childish behavior I've seen lately"

It's unfortunate, but as we age our skin gets thinner. For some it's not just our physical skin.

There's a reason for that. Over the years, an accumulation of stupid, annoying, and downright evil wears down our patience. I've embraced my grumpy curmudgeonliness.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince