Official Luthiers Forum!

I use only Original Titebond... because it can be removed with heat. Titebond3 is permanent. For anything glued to the soundboard I only use Hot Hide Glue because I think it transfers the sound better. Some will disagree with that point but I go by what has been tired and true through the ages and HHG has been used forever on musical instruments (plus I repair guitars and use what the manufacture used in the original construction).

So are you going to address that crack in the waist? After you get the top and back on it is going to look pretty odd with one square waist and one round (that is when it is going to really stand out)

Cheers,
Bob

Sorry there is no crack in the soundboard. I think your seeing an optical illusion caused from my drawing and the weird lines of the maple. I assure you, but now I'm afraid of jinxing myself before it's done like last time. Yea I'll have to look at the HHG for future builds. I usually use gorrilla wood glue but ran out and all my HW store carried was the 3.

Ok so during my last build I had at stop when it came to locating and placing my bridge because I was worried about the whole thing with it being 1/32 off and your screwed. I didn't trust my measuring and can't afford a digital ruler. So I called around and found someone with a saddle-matic. Problem was the shop was 40 miles away so I had to make a 80 mile round trip. That's a lot of gas so I thus time I ponied up and bought my own. Tool worth having right. Well what came today was very disappointing. First off it came in a huge box big enough to fit a 100 of these devices in. Second the which really made me mad because of the extra packaging involved, it was in pieces. I had to put it together. The site says nothing about assembly being required. Which is no problem really except for the pins have to be adjusted just right or your again screwed and that's the whole reason I bought it was so I didn't have to make those tiny measurements that I don't trust myself to make. So I go ahead read the instructions and put it together. And since I have two acoustics I decided I would just use them to help me place the pins in the right position. First one I grabbed was my starcaster acoustic. I place marker at the twelfth fret and butt the other end against the nut turn it around 180 degrees and guess what. The part with the pins butts up the saddle where the treble pin won't even fit. So I can't use that guitar to set the pins. So grab my guitar I built and amazingly it fit right. They are at the same scale. I did no adjusting to it after using it on my SC. So now I'm Po'd and confused. And feel like I'm going to have to make another 80 mile trip just set this this thing up right. Any body got any tips or advise to help me set this up right?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Here's a pic of the starcaster you can see the treble pin goes to over the front edge of the saddle to the center.

And here is a pic of my hand made guitar. And you can see the treble pin barely fits in front of the saddle.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Actually the crack I am talking about is in the side not the top. Maybe it is just an illusion of photography but the photos you are showing it appears the side right at the waist is cracked and you have a sharp angle unlike the other side.

The Saddlematic comes dissembled but it isn't a big deal because there is nothing to it. If you read the instruction you would know that the pins have to be adjusted for different scales. That is why they have set screws.

In both the pictures you show with the saddlematic it appears your intonation is not correct. When set correctly the pins point exactly at the front of the saddle.

What I do is this:

Before I have the bridge glued down (and not on the guitar) I set up the saddlematic and point where the front of the saddle should be and make a couple of marks so I know where it will be. I have already put blue painters tape down so not to draw on the wood. I take a straight edge and extend the lines out beyond where the sides of the bridge will be.
I usually have already cut the bridge blank and have it shaped but no pin holes or saddle slot. I also already have radiused the bottom to fit the soundboard and then position the blank and draw a line using a ruler to match up the lines I drew from the saddlematic. That is where the front of the saddle slot will be routed.

Bob

I probably should have added that both the pictures you show of your saddles can be corrected by shaping the saddle. I like to set the intonation for each string but that is just me.

Ok help me figure this out the first pic is of a factory built fender starcaster. It not a high end guitar but it sounds good. And the second guitar is my first handmade that I used a shops saddle-matic with. Could the SC have a different compensation value?

Instead of the taping process from the book, I went with a different method. And seems a lot easier to me but just a lil more work. What I do is take some construction paper and tape the bottom of the bridge to it so it's stable. Then I take an exacto and trace the outline of the bridge. I then start gluing a piece of cardboard onto that pieces and build it up a few layers cutting the outline out. When it's done I have a mold that the bridge literally "pops" tight into. Then I can move this rectangular bridge mold any where I need to and it stays put where ever I need it. I then popped the the bridge into it then used that ships tool to measure it and didn't have to worry about it moving while I taped the mold down. Did a recheck after the tape to make sure it was right. Any way I found using the mold easier to keep it place so I could tape.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Oh and no crack in the sides fortunately this time.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I actually mis-spoke about adjusting the pins for scale length. It is actually adjusted according to your saddle width.

Call me picky but I like to see the pins on the saddlematic just sit on the very front edge of the saddle. That gets you in the ball park and allows you to compensate each string so the intonation is correct.

Ok here's a top view of the saddle matic on my Starcaster again. You can see the long block actually goes over the saddle at the treble end. This can't be right. If my factory guitar was off that much it wouldn't play in tune at all. I've got to figure this out. Am I doing something wrong?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

That doesn't really surprise me. Please don't take offense but Fender is not known for high quality acoustic guitars. It is also an older guitar so the bridge has probably rotated forward but either way, I wouldn't use it for a comparison.

That would be like me trying to compare my old Yamaha FG 130 (which is a nice little "cheap" guitar) to one of my Gibson's or Martins. It is just not possible to compare

Also maybe you are missing the point about using the SM. It is not meant to be an "end all" to setting the intonation on an instrument. It is only meant to be a quick way to set the compensation (which is part of getting your guitars intonation correct. Just using the SM and nothing else will probably give you poor results and you will end up with a guitar that is not in tune up and down the neck. You have to do a lot more adjusting of the nut, saddle, truss rod and string hight to set up a guitar correctly. The SM is only the first step and an aid to get you close.

You should hop over and read this thread. It is all about intonation. It gets a bit deep in theory but you should understand the basics of what they are talking about. Then you will understand the why of what you are doing.

http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38107

Thank you so much for that. I think I have a better grasp on what needs to be done now.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

So, Here are a couple of pictures to show you the results of my use of the SM.

The first shot is of a friends Martin D-18 that I reset the neck and made a new bridge for. I did the job about a year ago and I told him to bring it by so I could recheck the work. Since this topic came up I took a shot of it to show you what you should strive for when using the SM. I Used the SM to set the position for the new saddle but before I did the job I measured how much belly the guitar had prior to removing the strings. After I removed the bridge and neck I put a jack inside the guitar to bring the sound board back to the original hight. I did that because the bridge will rotate forward under string tension so I had to take that into consideration before setting the saddle position. You can see that after a year nothing has moved and the saddle is exactly where I wanted it under string tension.

The second is of my own Gibson J-40 that I picked up a couple of years ago. The guitar was in sad shape and I picked it up for next to nothing. The neck was off, it had loose braces and the finish was flaking off because someone had refinished it and had no idea what they were doing. So this guitar came to me in pieces and I had no idea how much belly it had before. Fortunaly it is a Double X braced guitar so it was actually over braced from the factory. I had to pull the back off of it to fix the braces (yes, they were that bad) and since I had it off I decided to scallop the braces and shave them down considerable which threw another question of where the belly would actually be after it had the strings on. I made an educated guess and put the jack in and raised the belly up. You can see that even after a couple of years the saddle is exactly where I wanted it to be.

In both pictures you will see that the pins are sitting right on the very edge of the saddle. So the point of this is that you still have to make some guess work to know where you will end up after the strings are put on and it has tension on it. The best way on an acoustic is to use a jack inside the box to guestimate where the belly will end up.

On this same note I am curious why you would be putting acoustic braces in a hollow body electric with no sound holes?
The type of guitar you are actually building is more like a Gibson 335 which doesn't actually have any bracing, It has a long heel block that runs down the center of the guitar. They also made them (not sure of the model number) but it has 2 heavy braces running the length of the body just outside of where the pickups are, I think they actually use those braces to mount the pickups and support the bridge.

The last picture is how a ES 335 is braced.

Not to discourage you in your project but by not having any sound holes (usually F holes) you are defeating the whole purpose of putting the type of braces you are using. Not to say you can't do it, You can do anything you want and sometimes experimentation is the fun part.

Just my 2c for what it's worth

Cheers,
Bob

Experimentation is the best part. But in all seriousness I'm still essentially building an acoustic guitar and want it to sound and play like an acoustic guitar when played unplugged or using the piezo preamp system. Now the hot rail system I like playing with is just experimentation. I did this with my last acoustic with surprisingly good results after I finished its intonation. As far as a soundhole or F holes go, it made no difference in sound quality or projection to go with out. If I pick it up right now and play concert fortissimo the people upstairs can hear it clearly. Now this is all my opinion on my own work so I am a lil biased of course. But it's also for personal use you know and I'm trying to tweak my last results a bit. Now at some point I want to be able give my creations to deserving people and making a few real full sized acoustic guitars so I want to be able to have all this knowledge and practice. And practice makes perfect as the saying goes. I really appreciate all the help I've gotten from you guys on the OLF. It's the only site I'm a member of. Everybody here has been a tremendous help. Really!!! If it wasn't for you guys here I would still be at conception of my very first guitar.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Got my back board done earlier today then glued by soundboard to my sides. Here's a pic of with the fretboard and bridge mocked up.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

All right so I got my black plastic binding today and the top is ready for bridge installation once I get my neck done. If I'm gonna add color to my sound board, when would be the time to do it. I'm thinking now before I place the bridge that I can make the color even throughout. But idk. Any body want to chime in?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

I was chastised pretty loudly by several way more experienced guys than I when I was using Titebond III on my first build. They told me to save it for my furniture projects as it had no use in lutherie. The big reason why is that II and III don't crystallize the same way that I does, and because of that it can cause creep on joints, even over long periods of time where you'd think it was all set up. Rather than risk it, I ditched the stuff so I don't have any practical experience to back it up, but it makes sense. II and III are meant for exterior use, and they are formulated to remain somewhat flexible as exterior wood is exposed to greater temp and humidity swings than indoor. This flexibility keeps things happy outside, but isn't a desired trait in an adhesive that you're using to hold together your carefully crafted, fitted and sanded joints on instruments.

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Referen ... tcalc.html here is all the information you need. A decent ruler and a cheap set of calipers, and your off and running.

Any one know how I can get this effect?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Do a search on dying wood...

You should learn to start searching on your own rather than having everyone here spoon feed you.

Sorry to be rude but you keep asking some of the most simple questions that can be found just by using Google or the search here at this forum.

Bob

It is important to note that your top wood does not have that figure. I am not an expert finisher so take my word with a grain or 2 of salt, but I would stain the wood very dark, and then sand it almost off, leaving the figure darkly stained. I would then seal clear, followed by a tinted transparent lacquer, followed by a few clear coats.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

I sincerely apologize for some of the simpler stuff. I am searching first, I just don't know the proper KEY words to look for on some things. But thank you so much for being patient with me.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Cool. That gave me the general direction. I was looking "paint" and kept finding the wrong stuff of course. I can be a lil dense when I'm searching. Any way. I actually did it all in one pass though. I mixed my acrylic black a lil thicker than 50/50 and sponged the whole top black and let it dry. Afterwards I just started polishing the top with 400 then 600 grit. I'm pretty happy with the results. It really brought out the grain and now it won't blind anybody like my last acoustic. I didn't color it at all and if your standing under a bright light light it shines. LOL!!! Plus I wanted some contrast between the maple fretboard.

So here's a pic. I also made my bridge mold tonight which just makes things so much easier. I tried the tape method and soon realised I needed three hands. One to hold the bridge in place and two to tear and place the tape. Every time I let go of the bridge it would move so that was no good. Two sided tape just made it stick and I couldn't move it. So I made this. There's no play once it's snapped in and it makes the whole thing stable enough to move around and stay where I wanted. And once in place you just put a piece of tape on either side when your ready to glue and it makes it easier to clean any blemishes or residue from tape after. Any way that's my trick.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Rock on! Looks great. Are you going to clear coat it? It will pop the grain even more. If you don't want to blind anyone you could use a low sheen wiping oil. The spot on the bass bout that didn't take the stain may be due to residual glue and will sand off if that's what caused it.

Been doing some reading while I'm waiting on my parts to finish the triple-F. I didn't know anything about neck angle on my last guitar which has caused some action height problems. So on this guitar I wanted to make sure I did as much as possible by the book ( not counting my third cut away ). I saw an article by N&C saying that the angle of the neck should actually be a lil less than 1 degree. Now none of this is a problem except I wanted to make my neck able to remove easily if needed and I really don't want to glue my fretboard down. If I have to, I will but do any of you know any tricks to get around gluing the FB to the sound board?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

The first guitar I built (under the guidance of a pro) doesn't have the FB glued down even now, 3 years later. I think the fret tangs/barbs cause a little bit of back bow and when attached to the body, the FB extension (at least on this ONE example I have) lays flat against the top. And the neck angle on that one is really good, so I don't think proper neck angle should cause a problem.