Official Luthiers Forum!

There are those that do, and there are those that teach. And there are those that do and teach. I am thankful to those that are willing to pass along the things they have learned so freely.
How many of us frequent forums where we talk about the things we do in our day job?

It's amazing what you learn on here. I had never heard of Gorau Glas cheeses although it's made in Wales and now I find it's sold at 8.33±0.35 kpc from Galactic center, 20 light-years above the equatorial in the Sol System, and the Padma endorses it.

I think the answer is quite simple, pros do not need this forum. The ones who post do so because they like to and the ones who don't, don't.

I think this is the best post in this thread so far. Particularly the last sentence. Ask yourself that question and gain a new appreciation for those that do!

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

happen to know that one of the big names you posted is on this forum but under another name. If he used his name he would never be able to keep up with the constant questions.

I guess that's my cue. Gentlemen, I am Ervin Somogyi.

James, I knew I liked you from the start

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

If not for forums/mailing lists, I'd have near-zero contact with other guitar players and/or builders, pro or otherwise. And since I love passing-on what I know and what I learn, I've gravitated mostly toward luthier forums. I'm also not vain enough to think I know it all, and there's always the odd chance to still learn something here and there, be it a new technique, a new finish, a new wood source, or simply someone mentioning a good sale on routers, hygrometers, or whatever.

Could I live without ever reading or responding on a luthier forum? Heck yeah! Do I need to continue learning? Not really. I'm currently filling orders that were placed 9 years ago, and am faced with a beast of a wait list that runs at least another ten. Point being, what I already know, and do, would carry me to retirement. But I'm incessantly inquisitive, so sitting on my current book of knowledge and instrument model offerings won't do, for it would all become way too rote for me. So that's why I'm here.

As for others, some don't even own a computer(Wayne...), and many do have 'em, but don't enjoy typing, reading, etc... For those who leave/have left/will leave, there are many reasons, so don't judge them, for you know not what other factors they may be facing; perhaps they came here one day to relax and unwind after burying a relative or friend only to find a bunch of you all wadded-up over something utterly stupid, and they simply said to themselves "I've had enough of this $h!t...". So instead of asking why some don't frequent your forum of choice, best to ask why those that do, do.

Well said Grumpy.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Some people aren't the internet type either.

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Another day, another dollar.

As I have gotten older I enjoy teaching what I know to younger people. I think that experienced builders are on forums primarily for this reason, to teach. It is a sacrifice to have to answer the same issues over and over but that is what teaching is. I think the forums are THE reason for the golden age we are enjoying. Well at least we hobbyist are enjoying it. When I see their names, it took me awhile to figure who Grumpy was etc, I listen. Most of the rest of us just have opinions and it is more like meeting at the coffee shop. So there are 3 types on forums: the learners, the opinionated, the pros.

I haven't posted much of late and apologize if my notable absence prompted this thread.







Yes, I'm kidding.

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George :-)

Exactly. Elaine Boosler once posed the question, "What do hookers do on their nights off. Type?"

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I thought I'd written this this morning, but perhaps I didn't actually submit it. I'm technically of the internet generation, and while all of my friends are highly active on Facebook, none beside me belong to forums. I think forumites are still a pretty small sample of society. That the larger segment of a very small profession don't participate in online fora isn't all that surprising.

"Exactly. Elaine Boosler once posed the question, "What do hookers do on their nights off. Type?""

So how many of youse guys are Hookers for your day job?

The pros I spoke to got tired of newbies, and wannabes/armchair loofier know it alls trashing them here and on other forums.I will for anonymity not name names. From my own perspective.there is a lot of rude behaviour here from some. IMHO ingratitude is the halitosis of the soul. On that note adios . I have learned a lot of new ideas on the forum , and for that I/m eternally grateful thank you fellow olfers.

I like this forum -- there are a lot of nice people. There isn't any one reason why noteworthy builders (aside from the few on the OLF) don't frequent the forums. You do see more builders posting on the AGF than here. I will say that I have learned to stay away from posting anything even remotely "controversial" or something that can be done well more than a few different ways. I find that a few people on the OLF tend to argue rather than discuss. Bear in mind, I don't mind people disagreeing with me at all - but the way many of my threads have gone (or threads were I posted information), I have found that I was put on the defensive unnecessarily. The content of these threads is visible to the public -- and I need to make certain that any prospective customer feels like I "know what I'm doing". If someone posts a comment that I'm wrong or is dismissive of my comments - that does reflect poorly on me unless I can defend my perspective. I know several prominent builders that I communicate with occasionally and they feel the same way as I do -- that posting here can sometimes be a very frustrating experience -- and I would consider all of these guys to be quite humble and affable individuals. I made a recent thread on EVO gold fretwire - I found the experience frustrating. My frustration was not at all related to the content of some of the responses but was merely related to the way in which the words were said (which I considered dismissive and I am not at all thin-skinned). In the end, I stay quite busy and just come here to enjoy the various posts and congratulate various OLF builders on what is often quite impressive work.

Quite honestly, a good solution for me would just be to post under a different name -- then I wouldn't feel the need to ever go on the defensive - maybe I will do that in the future. And if anyone is rude to me, then I'll just respond with a friendly picture like the one below:

...please don't leave out us rank amateurs who eagerly chime in and issue advice and conjecture on processes they have zero experience with and knowledge about...!
semi-sarcasm aside, i do believe there can be a bit of potential good in having the unschooled question(not doubt, but question) the staid and rigidly traditional "tried and true" establishment as well, if only to bring complex concepts back to base for other beginners who are absorbing information. if that makes sense. but there are quite a few folks over say 45 who really don't use the internet, and that is understandable.

I would just like to quickly thank everyone that posts of these forums pros or not. There is an amazing wealth of knowledge coming from the veterans and amateurs alike. A lot of us owe a great deal to what we had learned here and on other forums. Some of it is not always right or the way we find to be best but that is often something you must decide for yourself.

I don't get very much time to post as I find any free time lately has been spent building but when I do get a chance come on I know I will be greeted with atleast a few neat ideas or different perspectives on old things.

Thanks!

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http://Michaudmade.com

How insightful!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!

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MK5acoustics.com

Thank you.

Great. What are you supposed to do if you're category 2a?

You're a lawyer too?

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanx Todd!
Would you like a little cheese with that whine?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I beg to differ (respectively, of course…). The question asked by the OP is a very healthy one to ask ourselves. Just like any business of organisation that deals with the public, we should be very attentive as to why people don’t come here, or worst, leave or keep silent. Just being happy with the folks that come here and are cool with how things are going, saying everything is fine and dandy under the sun, would be playing the ostrich, burying our head in the sand.

I have been a full time luthier for 7 years now. If I was able to move from a hobbyist with questionable results to a full time guitar maker producing high end guitars, it is greatly because of the many professionals that used to hang around here, generously feeding me with their valuable knowledge, often acquired in a far more hard way than by grabbing info from a forum. And I am extremely thankful to them. Some are still hanging around here a bit (Mario – or Grumpy – is one that comes to mind), but as it was pointed out on multiple occasions in the past, including in this thread, most pros seem to avoid this place now (or just lurk and keep to themselves). I see this as a significant loss of value for the OLF, and I think it is of the utmost importance that we ( or Lance for that matter…) do something about it if we want the OLF to keep being as popular as it is today, and populated with cutting edge information. (Try searching for “double top” for example, or "polyester" and you’ll see very few threads exploring the technique, and they are starting to be old ones… )

No matter how many amateurs with 10 or 12 guitars behind their back participate and generously give their feedback, it will still remain feedback from amateurs. Advice from several professionals with 100+ and 200+ guitars is significantly more valuable, and I think we should thrive to insure that many more pros get comfortable here and feel safe giving their feedback, techniques or tricks, without some wiseass (pro or amateur for that matter) who somehow feels threatened by a technique different then his starts publically discrediting it . SimonF reference to his thread about EVO fretwire is a very good example of that, I think. To quote Mario:


… is quite understandably what Simon came to feel, and what others that just were reading the thread as well, pros or not. This sort of discussion (the Simon thread) is just not healthy for the luthier community. Failing to admit that, saying “screw the ones that don’t like a debate!”, is easy to say when you are the one pissing off others, and falls sadly very far from being constructive and beneficial for the OLF.

On the other hand, this discussion, or at least the questions it raises, is a very healthy one, and should not be swiped under the rug. Or else it will eventually be necessary to rename “The Official luthiers forum” to “The amateur luthiers forum”.

My 2 cents…

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)