Official Luthiers Forum!

+1.

BTW, there's no reason you can't use metric measurements. I build with metric even in steel string sometimes. Just convert the inches to mm's

Oh, I forgot, if you're doing a bolt on neck, you will probably want/need to drill the holes before cutting the tenon! Make sure to think it all through in case I've forgotten something else!

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Special%20interest/headblock.html

In a past life, I much preferred the SI system for one simple reason: force and mass. In the English system we had that nasty bit of Lbf and Lbm, and you had to keep up with your units for everything to work out right. In the SI system they solved this by using different units, Newtons for force and Kg for mass.

Then someone got lazy, and started using KG for weight measures. When they did that, I actually saw someone advocate the usage of Kgf and Kgm. Equality achieved, advantage lost.

Digital inches work just fine for close tolerances. Guess it mostly depends on what measuring tools you have, and which system you are more comfortable with.

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

I messed up bad! I bought a prefab fretboard and its way to small at the top and way to big at the bottom. This won't work for me its 40mm and 60mm T & B. Would anybody know where I can get a cheap (20 w shipping incl) pre slotted fret board? It needs to measure 43mm at top and 56 to 57mm at bottom with 20 frets 25.5 scale. I could offer more but the price to return the one I bought is the price I paid for it. So I'm stuck with it. I would also be willing to trade.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

No worries, not too bad. He who has never made a mistake has never made anything! This is just the first of many, recovering from mistakes is a crucial learning curve. Not that I am far along that curve myself!

Don't know what shipping is within the states but Stewmac do a slotted rosewood board for $20. (Wrong scale though, check LMI and the others, I'm not overly familiar with suppliers over there.) With a bolt on neck, you can get on with other things while you wait for it. I'm planning on building the entire body of my next one before really starting on the neck. On my last one I felt like I spent an age working on the neck before I even knew how the body was going to turn out! I think I'm going to enjoy the peace of mind of working on the neck with the body pretty much done.

I wish I could remember the seller for you, but I don't. Having said that, I've had some good recent luck with fretboards I've bought off Ebay. I would think that StewMac would offer a 25.5 scale, no?

As to the trussrod you bought, it calls for a barrel nut that is set into the neck. Those type are often used on LP style guitars, I've made a few of my own. I sink the barrel nut perpendicular to the fretboard, or vertical to the FB's horizontal.

All righty! I was looking for fretboards on the Bay and ran across the Taylor T5-S hybrid acoustic/electric guitar. (See pic). From what I have read so far, it is a hollow body type and thin line like would like. And I really dig the F holes. Also the ads say its using a humbucker pickup even though it looks like a single coil. I was thinking I might try this design instead but of course I have questions.

Ok if I were to make this guitar, would I add a block inside the guitar body to hold the pickup? Also I was thinking a coil tapped humbucker to switch from single to both coils. Ideally I would like to use the same pickup system but I do have a budget. Also it has a preamp installed in it and I'm trying to figure out what the three top board C-knobs are for. Ideas anybody?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

You may want to post some of these questions on the Electric Guitar forum too.

My idea was to check their website.

OK, kidding aside, from a woodworking standpoint, I think you're much more likely to have a successful experience trying to build something like this than what you posted before as a first acoustic. Although I'll be honest and say I have doubts as a whole. I'd recommend starting out with something much more established (see my note below).

One luthier I know who builds acoustic electrics like this makes them just like his regular acoustic guitars. I would post pictures if I had his OK, but I'll try to explain as well as I can.

Tops are built just like his regular acoustics, with a few key changes.

1) No sound hole.

2) A spruce block (4" x .75-1") thick runs from neck block to tail block. This is what the pickups mount to, and some of Shane's brace stock would be perfect - check High Mountains link in the sponsor section and order two just in case. Top is braced like usual, but the braces are obviously omitted where the the block runs.

3) The areas of the top that control knobs mount to are reinforced with thin maple.

Ultimately, my advice is to follow Robbie O'Brien's online acoustic guitar making course, and build a standard OM with a pickup to get your feet wet before getting too experimental. There's a well-known story about Mile's Davis telling a young horn player he needed to learn his scales before playing jazz. I think it applies here. Get a solid working knowledge of how all these bits of wood work together by following a well-known designs with a high rate of success.

Ok my bad the first question was a question, I apologize. Got some things going on and did not think that question through. And yes I think you may be right on trying the T5 first before going completely acoustic. Yea I had measured the OM & 00 plans and thought the OM plans might be easier. On your measurement of the 4 inch wide board that runs from neck block to tail block, I didn't understand the .75-1 measurement. Could you please elaborate on that measurement. Also what do I do about the bracing where the F holes go. And thanks for the link I'll check it out now.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Don't worry about it, my comment was tongue in cheek. I've asked more than my fair share (particularly since starting a doctoral program last year and forgetting just about everything I know about everything else!). In the end, seeking information is never a bad thing.



No, no! I think you should try to build a traditional, well-documented, well-supported acoustic like a dread, an OM, or OO, before venturing off into experimental hybrid land. But from a woodworking perspective, a design like the T-whatever is more approachable than what you initially posted with two florentines and questions of how to best support the neck.



This is where a picture or drawing is worth 1000 words. Depending on how deeply your electronics need to mount, that piece could be anywhere from 3/4"-1" thick. Shane's brace stock is usually .75", so ordering two pieces would give you enough material to laminate together to get the depth you need.



See what I mean? Eliminating details like this by starting with an established design would let you devote more attention to making sure it sounds and plays good. We're constantly learning, but the first guitar feels like you're drinking from a firehose no matter what. It feels a lot better to start your second after a successful first than starting the second after scrapping the first. And trust me. I scrapped the first four or five. I started when I was 18, didn't have any woodworking skills or tools to speak of, and tried to piecemeal everything I needed from random websites and threads. Lots of wasted wood. You said you have the woodwork, so you're already a step ahead.

James is giving good advice! It's probably only my ignorance and inexperience that prevented me from saying the same. Keep refining your thinline design but build your first in a way that allows you to focus on the woodworking rather than the design.

Ok gotcha. I'm still in planning stage that's why I'm asking about different ideas.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Just curious but where can I find a set of the plans that you posted the pic of?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

How much kerfing should I buy? Stewmac says that eight are needed for a dreadnought size guitar and I know an OM is smaller but should I get less or more. Just want to make sure I have enough.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Yours will be smaller than a dreadnought, not sure what difference there is in the perimeters though, you can check the measurements easy enough. James recommended Robbie O'Brien's OM course, which I'm sure is more than worth every penny. Grellier also has an OM plan in case you want to try on your own.

Which guitarmaking books do you have?

+1 for Robbie's course, and maybe study that before you start buying materials. He is very thorough with every step of acoustic construction, including how to choose materials. His course uses an OM "kit" but that's just a box of well chosen materials, there's nothing cookie-cutter about it. It is a scratch build, but as a "kit" it allows you to get everything you need and nothing more, in fact I think you can watch the introduction video to his course for free....just go to O'Brien guitars.
Since it's already been mentioned, I will second the thought that it would be best to build the first one using a ready-made plan or course, with materials that are fairly standard. Based on the questions you're asking, I think you might end up really frustrated trying to go too far outside the box to start. Good luck!

I don't remember the source, and I don't know if the layout is correct, but I'm attaching the file.

Another word on Robbie's course. You can purchase it chapter by chapter. This could make it more financially feasible if that's an issue.

All right guys. I am disabled so I'm on a strict budget. I would love to buy a kit with everything included but buying piece by piece cuts the kit price in half. I don't actually have any building books, I have been reading what I can find online and asking questions when I get stuck. I plan to buy some books as well as take a few classes when time and $ permits it. I am a skilled woodworker with lots of help from people more skilled than I am. I really see no problem in building an acoustic guitar in any way as long as I use plans to tell me how big, how long, where it goes,etc.The only thing that really intimidates me is bending the sides. I've watched a lot of vids on how to do it with jigs and heat guns and stuff and it doesn't look to hard just a slow process. I've always been the kind of person to push my boundaries on what I can and can't do. You can blame my teachers and parents for that. Hell my first electric I installed a dedicated wireless system with a 10 hour lithium battery that charges using a USB. Tiny and for under $30 and works better than any name brand wirekess sytem. That doesnt mean im going to go super experimental Im just asking questions. I know building an acoustic instrument is different from building a solid body instrument and try to think everything through weeks before I'm ready to do something so I'm prepared for any eventuality. My first build took almost a year to research. I hope I haven't made anyone mad and that you will continue to help me. I am taking everyone's advice into consideration. I do want to do it right the first time after all. Any links to information will also be followed. I really appreciate all your help.

Ok now it's question time again. I asked stewmac about a 25.5 scale fret board and they said something I hadn't thought of because it was in the electrics groups. But they said the fender scale rosewood fingerboard (# 1062-r) would work. So I checked it out and it's got 24 fret slots. My question is can the fretboard be cut off at the 21st fret slot to make it fit right?

And thanks again everybody I really do appreciate all your help, info and advice.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

You're doing fine, mate! No worries. You'll find a lot of help on here! I'm sure none of us were trying to dissuade you from doing something you really want to do, just giving you all the information.

You can definitely buy in stages with some careful planning, but with that saving, make sure to get this http://www.amazon.com/Guitarmaking-Tradition-Technology-Guitar-Reference/dp/0811806405/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382388774&sr=8-1&keywords=cumpiano, as it is much more complete than anything you'll find for free online and will be a massive help along the way! Others who recommend other similarly priced books may disagree with my choice but Cumpiano's was the one that I used. I'd say that's essential.

Bending sides is daunting for sure and to be perfectly honest, I've only bent three sets so far (all hot pipe method) so I've not got the expertise to give much advice. All I can say is it was easier than I thought it would be. Follow the general advice and get a wood that's known for being easy to bend such as rosewood. The only way I can describe it is that you need to "get to know" how wood bends. Start by applying little pressure, sliding the wood back and forth over the pipe to get get it hot, and build your way up, keeping track as you go. Once you start getting somewhere, you need to hold the wood in shape for a short while to "set" the bend. Mark the waist and the apex of the upper and lower bouts, making sure to hold the wood square to the pipe and keeping the pressure you exert equal. I've not broken any yet and I'm pretty darn pleased with how my last set turned out. I'm going to be bending my forth set soon!

You can definitely cut the fretboard at whichever fret slot you like.

Agreed with Nick. Don't worry about the questions. All the advise here so far has been to encourage the best possible outcome.

Check out some of the challenge threads in the Challenge Forums. They're done with minimizing cost in mind.

For the kerfed linings, my sides are usually around 32" long. You'll want linings for the top and back, so with Stew Mac's 16" linings, that's eight minimum. I'd buy two extra just in case. You'll be glad you have some of the just-in-cases.

As far as the fretboard goes, don't order anything until you know what you'll be making. The scale-length, string-spacing of the bridge, and nut width are critical. You could order something for a Strat, then realize your bridge has 2.25" string-spacing and you want 1 3/4" at the nut. Oops. Then you'll be ordering a 3rd

I made this video the last time I bent a set of sides. It was for my friends and family, so it's more experiential than informational. But it will show you how smooth the process actually is. My setup is a standard Fox bender and blanket setup, but there are less expensive ways to do it over a pipe. I don't personally have experience with them.

Unfortunately, most plans are not that complete. The fact that the guitar flexes under string tension makes it difficult for plans to show some things, particularly the top/neck relationship.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I agree with James that, if you're looking to build economically, looking at the past and present challenge threads is really helpful. The guys are really complete in describing the steps they use and you'll see a variety of home made jigs, and many are using wood that they've gotten really inexpensively.

Rodger's right about following plans....there are limits to their usefulness in that they will give you textbook dimensions but those might end up being more like approximations of what actually works for the materials you choose, and the sound you want. There are lots of threads on the OLF about voicing the top, which can give you an idea about how you might end up modifying top thickness, brace size, and brace design.

All right thank you for pointing me in the right direction on "voicing the soundboard". Specific information on what to look up really helps. I looked up guitar bracing for days and couldn't figure out what y'all were talking about. So please from now on be specific about the info your asking me to look up.

Ok so after reading soooooo many lectures and articles including notes and info from the cumpiano news letter, I'm starting to understand what you mean about the bracing and the materials I choose and how to apply bracing and shave and tune it. I've also been experimenting with my starcaster. Plucking strings and feeling the vibration each note makes on the soundboard and tapping it near, on and in between the bracing trying to get a better idea of the tuning process. I also do these things with my ear on the instrument to get a better feel. You'd be surprised at what you learn.

Now I have a question about neck attachment. I'm gonna wait till I have the body built before I actually start working on it but I like to think ahead so I have the problem solved way before I get to it.

Ok my neck as you will see in the pic is really rough and can be bolted on or other. Since I'm making a thin line guitar I know I'm going to have to make a custom neckblock ( i have plenty of scrap walnut from my last build so its covered) but how do I cut the the slot. I know I need max leverage to hold it on so I was thinking of maybe doing a full slot from top to bottom to allow me space for bolts but I that might be wrong. I would be interested in all opinions and fact.

I also got my plans printed today. I decided on only one cutout I hope that makes things a lil easier. And I left enough space and measured out the kerfing for that area. As you can see. I plan on using a jig where you wrap the sides over the jig rather than the bent pipe method. It seems more delicate to me.

Here is a pick of my neck.


And here is a pic of my modified OM plan with cutout.


Please keep the advice and info coming.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Also, I have been trying to find the bolts to use to make my neck a bolt on but my search for "acoustic guitar neck bolts" only sends me too some PDF's or necks with bolts already installed. I've also checked stewmac with no results. Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Can someone please help me with that.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com