Frank Cousins wrote:
Nick, love your work by the way!
As someone who only started building as a hobby a few ago purely because as a player I was interested in how these things were put together... Plus an escape from the daily grind of a stressful day job, it's easy to think it would be great to be able to spend every day in the workshop.... A dream life! But as someone who at 43 has the usual mortgage , young family etc, it would really only be swapping one set of stresses for another, very much the financial ones- as building a strong enough reputation of quality and craft takes years... I suspect that the pleasure of the hobby would be too quickly eroded once deadlines, sales, marketing, finance became involved.
That said, were I 17/18 again, And with the benefit of hindsight, I would have maybe looked to have apprenticed with a pro, if possible - them maybe 20 odd years later, the skill and experience would have it would be possible now to make a decent living from it?
Do have a plan to maybe supplement the pension one day;-)
Question for you though.... Do you as a pro, feel that the increasing number of very good amateur or semi pro builders impacts your business negatively? Or does the increased awareness of the benefits of hand crafted instruments at realistic price points see more players take the hand crafted route?
For most amateur players, a £2000-£4000 investment is a serious decision and many still follow the 'resale' value rationale for deciding on a named brand - especially as the few top makers whose instruments do maintain their value are often charging 2 or 3 times that amount....
Final point is that anyone starting out would be restricted on what they can charge by what their market will pay.... And without a 'name' and decent reputation, that could be as low as £1000-£1500.
At that price would be impossible to make a living surely... Especially, as seems most pros I have spoken to actually don't make a real profit for their business .... Yes they earn enough, just, they are not selling at a standard retail mark up.... Eg. If you are selling at say £3000, if materials are £400-£1000, you add in a margin for tools and equipment, shop electricity, heating etc, insurance, and over business overheads, be generous and say labour is £20 an hour at 100 hours, then that £3000 instrument is actually the cost price, so should be selling at least at maybe £4000 to show a 30% margin... How many pros can actually sell at a price point that produces a genuine margin?
See... The business aspects are already depressing
This really is a great thread, glad I started it!
The quoted post here sums up many of the problems for those who want to concentrate on building and as yet are not established.
The market has changed beyond recognition since I started with Sobell back in '88. Then there was almost no amateur market, no internet. Only a couple of books on "how to make a guitar."
The increasing number of gifted amateurs does have some effect on business for sure - as many who build now for fun may have in the past comissioned. Last year a couple of people contacted me to commission a guitar, bought my book and decided to make one instead!
The business is changing. There are more makers than ever before. The number of customers isn't growing accordingly. How full time makers react to these changes will depend on their situation, and their willingness or ability to accord with things as they are.
One thing for sure is that there are a lot less apprenticeships on offer - now if you want to learn from an experienced maker you have to pay.
I'm interested to see where people are at - who is happy with where they are and who isn't. There are real benefits to amateur status - your creations are only limited by your skills not constrained by customer expectations. It can take years before that is truly the case for full time makers, unless they set out with this plan from the start.
At the same time, for professionals, if you are organised, and understand the business side of lutherie, (many full time makers and repairers never get to grips with the "non creative" stuff) this is a very nice way to make a decent living. Still.
nigel
http://nkforsterguitars.blogspot.co.uk/
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out a living. And as others have said, if building guitars was coupled with food on the table all the charm would turn in to pressure. At least that's how it would be for me.