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I've used West System on every guitar for the last six years, just over 500 guitars and it has performed great. I should have mentioned above that I mix by volume. Much easier and I can mix as little as 1cc with the syringes.

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jw ( o)===:::

Joe I just did some tests on scrap wood, how long until its safe to sand?

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Fred, I typically fill one day and sand the next and that is with the 207. If it pills when you sand it, it hasn't cured long enough. It should powder.

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jw ( o)===:::

Here's a practical weighing guide to use ratios by weight and mix small batches accurately.

Overall mixed weight / 1.(part B ratio) = Amount of part A.

So...if the mixing ratio is 100A:28B by weight and you want 10 grams of mixed material:

1. Zero the scale with you cup on it.
2. Using a calculator....10 / 1.28 = 7.8125
3. Pour 7.8 gms of part A into the cup.
4. Pour part B into the cup to get to the overall weight of 10.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I did the sanding on the 1st coat of my West 105/207 test panels and intentionally did a sand through on one of them. After the 2nd coat the area in blended in with the rest of the panel. So far my observations are it applies and cures clear like System 3, cures about as fast, and sands easy as Z-poxy and eliminates the work of matching sand through areas. I think I have a new product to use, too bad I just opened a new batch of Z-Poxy on the last build and only used the System 3 on one guitar.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I forgot to add I did the mix on my gram scale and by weight West says 3.5 to 1 so I did it as 3.5 G resin 1 G hardener and it looks to be enough for 1 coat on the average guitar. A bit wasteful for tests but I wanted to simulate a coating on a guitar and 4 to 5 grams of Z-poxy was always enough for an application of 1 coat.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I measure/mix epoxy by weight on an inexpensive gram scale. Here's one from Harbor Freight for $11.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-gram-digital-scale-97920.html

With today's inexpensive electronics, these are very accurate, especially for our uses.

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Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

Where is the best place to buy the West system epoxies? What is the smallest container you can buy? Soes it have a good shelf life?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

I found some information about storage. It mentions the hardener may darken with age in storage. Not sure if this applies to the mixed epoxy or not. Does this concern anyone?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Nope

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jw ( o)===:::

I just had a look at the second coat on my test panels done 8 hours ago and is cured to touch but still a little soft to sand. The area I intentionally sanded through to bare wood after the 1st coat is the same color as the rest. I hope to start the pore fill on a guitar tomorrow.



All I can find is 1 quart 105, 1 pint 207 so I have a life time supply.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

The 207 hardener darkens with age. It does amber the mixed epoxy some. I bought a quart that had already started to darken from a marine supply store and felt a little "ripped off" because of that (the 207 is more expensive than the regular 205 stuff). Anyway to tell when the stuff was made? No problems with the curing of the mix though.
Does anyone use the 205 hardener? How much color does it add to the final film?

I finished off my test panels on 105/207 west and decided to proceed to a guitar. I applied the 1st coat on my Ziricote 12 00 and it was great to work with. Thanks to Trevor and Joe for mentioning this product earlier in this thread I now have what I feel will be my go to epoxy for pore filling.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Fred, if you want to add some warmth (or an amber tone) you will add it to the finish?

Could be good or bad (depending on your perspective) but I read that there is an ultraviolet inhibitor in the 207 hardener.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

The only place the amber tone might be nice is maybe on the neck shaft mahogany, but the west has made the neck for the 00 look just fine. The nice thing is sand through is not an issue with the West. I don't know about UV in the hardener but that would be another plus in my book.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I wouldn't bank on that with all woods, all of the time!

Are you dry or wet sanding the WEST?

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Dry sanding Trevor, though it was so far only on my test panel. Worked great on EIR and Ziricote. I will get to sanding the 1st coat on a guitar tomorrow.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Thanks for the test and update Fred

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Thank You and Best To All

Thanks, Fred. Make sure you keep that dust under control!

One more tip: leave the WEST at least 24 hours before you hit it with nitro. Prior to that, the solvents in the nitro seems to soften the epoxy, which then gives some sink-back later. After 24 hours, the epoxy seems pretty impervious and you end up with a flatter finish. Not sure of the impact with other finishes.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I think it must be the amber tone of the Z-poxy that creates the difference in the color after the next coat. I could even this out somewhat by careful application of Z-poxy in the bare wood area before the next coat was applied. I intentionally sanded through on 2 of my test panels and recoated. I could barely tell where the sand through happened after the 2nd coat cured, with Z-poxy it would be much lighter in that area. I found the same thing with the system 3 clear coat but did not like the variable cure times of that product in my somewhat cooler shop and the fact it needed an extra coat the get the fill I wanted.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

The easiest way is to mix with ratios other than 1:1 is to use graduated mixing cups and pumps and mix by volume.

For smaller amounts, I use these 1 oz. cups that are graduated in fractions of an ounce and in CC/ML.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wt ... XK360&P=ML

For larger amounts I like to use 4-0z. specimen cups that are also graduated in fractions of an ounce and in CC/ML.

http://www.amazon.com/Specimen-Cups-Wit ... B0006GDBR2
http://www.amazon.com/ProAdvantage-Spec ... _sbs_hpc_7

For a 3:1 ratio, it's as easy as squirting in 30cc and 10cc, or 45cc and 15cc, etc. For a 2:1 ratio, 20cc and 10cc, etc.

If you use graduated cups, you don't need another tool such as a scale because you're already mixing them in a cup of some sort.

The nice thing about using graduated cups is that you can put both components in one cup instead of into two. You fill the cup with one component up to a certain line, then add the other component until it gets to another line. Then, mix. The problem with using two cups is that there will always be some leftover in one of the two cups, which means that your ratio is never 1:1. Instead it's 1:.98 or 1:.97, etc. Not to mention wasting a cup for every batch of epoxy mixed.

Yes, cups are a good option when using the pumps.

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jw ( o)===:::

On volume mix with West 105 and 207 it is a 3:1 ratio.

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jw ( o)===:::

I also use the graduated mixing cups for small amounts. It seems to work pretty good.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm a newbie here and pretty much a lurker until I actually start on a guitar but I'll throw this in here.

I've used gallons of West System epoxy over the years for my furniture. I've used it for bent lamination, veneers, and even for joinery if it's a particularly complex glue up that requires a long open time. I also use it a LOT for filling voids, defects, etc. BIG voids. More like crevasses...

My comment is that it does not seem to be very fussy about exact mixing ratios. I use the pumps most of the time (IMHO not particularly accurate either) but as others said often that produces way more than one needs. If I need very small amounts I keep a couple eye dropper type nalgene bottles and count drops. I have also mixed with measuring spoons, graduated cups etc. I'm SURE that I've missed the 5:1 ratio the 206 hardener calls for by a fair amount many times and have never had a problem with curing. I like an amber tint in my finishes so I have not tried the 207 hardener and can't provide any info there.

As far as going off in the pot... 'Large' quantities, like say a 1/2 cup, mixed in a smallish pot will generate a lot of heat due to the chemical reaction. I've melted plastic yogurt tubs etc. being careless that way. Luthiers obviously don't need that kind of volumes, but in case you decide to build a boat , pot life can be extended considerably by spreading the mixed batch out in a larger container or tray so the heat can dissipate.

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May be so... may be not so...

http://www.solomonrossfurniture.com/