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I ran into a situation where super blonde shellac would cause uneven coloration in end grain vs. side grain on an electric guitar body made of Port Orford Cedar. The only solution that worked was to seal with a water based polyarcylic sanding sealer and suffer through repeated sandings and re-applications. Eventually, the stuff was sealed and stayed level after the next new coat.

I REALLY love the Port Orford Cedar but going through that again is out of the question. I'm wondering if you might have any other suggestion other than shellac as a sealer in this situation? Or perhaps using a thicker cut will reduce absorbtion? I suppose alcohol is a surfactant and the less the better in this case.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

It will be quite some time before I am back in finishing mode but I'll give it a go. It sounds like several of us are going to try it out. Maybe we should have a thread where we all post our experiences and tips. Maybe that is what this thread will become.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

for Z- try epoxy next time.

Mike

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Mike Collins

I use water-soluble aniline stains, and the trick is to raise the grain by wetting the surface and sanding it flush 2 or 3 times before using the stain. After doing that, the stain raises the grain very little, if at all.
The other advantage to using this method is that it removes artifacts of the sanding process that can show when the finish is applied. Coarse sandpaper 'dents' soft wood, and these dents can show, even when the surface has been sanded flush with finer paper. Wetting the wood and drying it with a hair dryer pulls these 'dents' out.

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John

Mike and Pat, and those that are experimenting...does the finish seem flexible enough, and does it burn into itself so to avoid witness lines?

Chuck

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Today a few hours after the sixth coat I leveled out the finish and buffed it up. Way too early to do that, the label says to allow a week for it to cure, but I was curious to get a preview of how glossy it would be. Looks pretty good, but, as I said it's still soft so I had to buff gingerly and couldn't get the surface like a mirror. I'll give it a week or so and have another go.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

End grain can be hard to manage since it soaks up more of everything. I have had good success with thin CA. I use the Rockler brand and let the end grain soak up all it will. Then it is perfectly sealed.

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I spent most of my money on women, guitars and whiskey, the rest I wasted.

Hi Mike,

Thank you for sharing this product..!

Could you explain a little more about why you like this over the target products? I'm just wondering what advantages you see?

Also - just a word to the wise regarding shellac and waterborne finishes - you can't use just any old shellac under these finishes. It has to be freshly mixed and not the premixed stuff. I'm sure you pro's know this, but some folks may not.

Thanks,
Trev

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

I'm suffering finish angst myself since 'Rockhard' varnish has been changed from an oil-resin varnish to a water born polyurethane. I'm auditioning a couple of different varnishes (Sherwin Wiliams and Pratt & Lambert &38) now, and looking for more, as my last can of Behlen's dwindles. I'm _very_ skeptical of water borns, and I've had some bad experiences with them in the past: one turned into chewing gum on the backs of necks in about a year. RThat was about 12-15 years ago, and I know they've made progress since. I simply can't use lacquer, and UV poly leaves me cold.

I just saw the Poly-Whey this morning, when I went to the local hardware/feed store to get dog crunchies, and scoped out the finish section. The idea is certainly appealing, and the clerk I spoke with said that they're local, and welcome communication. Looks like I'll gave to give it a go. I wonder if there's any sort of accelerated perspiration test I can run?

You could make a pair of hand weights and take up jogging. <G>

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Al - I would think that if you expose it to the substance in question and then maintain an elevated temperature (below that which would affect the material of course!) then that would probably help the chemical reaction along.

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Trevor:
I've had success with Targets finish up until the last few
years.
It seems they change the formula for some reason.
Plus it's still bluish on some rosewoods.
I even had to strip some crazed finish off a guitar that was
finished per their instructions.
It's the only one I've had that problem with.
I use dewaxed shellac as a sealer-fill pores-sand to bare wood
& apply the shellac again.
This has worked for me since 1999 when I first starting using it.
But the last 2 shipments of it have just been hard to work with.
Stew Mac even sent me a gree qt. -same problem!

Mike

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Mike Collins

Alan,
Behlen introduced the reformulated urethane oil-varnish Rockhard in May of '12. Where have you seen mention that Rockhard is now a waterborne finish?

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

" Where have you seen mention that Rockhard is now a waterborne finish?"

Maybe I mis-read...

Watered down hide glue to clog the end grain. Then shellac.

Hey Pat, did you buff that out? I just finished spraying the last coats of PolyWhey on a guitar and am wondering how long I "really" have to wait.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Contact the manufacturer. If this stuff works I'll be stoked, it's available locally....

I spoke to them the other day. They recommend 1 week. They are not finishing guitars though.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm still unclear about one point. Does this stuff "burn in" or will you get witness lines? If I use this, I will have to brush it, I expect to have to do a fair ammount of leveling.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I've sprayed a total of 7 coats of the furniture clear gloss. It flows out much better if you thin it between 5 and 10% by volume with distilled water (I spoke with the manufacturer). So far I've sanded back several times including one serious leveling session with P600, I've also drop filled a few places and, so far, have not seen any evidence of witness lines. Probably be real clear when I have it buffed out. This has been done before it has had time to fully cure so I don't know what would happen if you need to repair it later. We'll see.

You can recoat in 1 to 2 hrs and it can be sanded after 2 hrs. It sands pretty easy. I'm spraying at about 65F and 45% humidity using a Walcom EGO HVLP gravity gun. I like working with this better then the EM6000 I was using; it builds faster and sands better.

I did a ZPoxy pore fill sanded back to bare wood then 2 coats of 2# blonde shellac to seal.

Interesting tidbit: I sprayed the neck and accidentally stuck my finger in the wet finish on the fretboard extension. Crap! I started to try to wipe it off and respray then thought maybe that was not a good idea so I figured I'd let it dry and sand it back then respray later. Looked at it an hour later and there was no evidence of the big finger goober. It apparently leveled itself.

Here's the end result in the cabinet till I finish it next week. Same photo I posted in my challenge thread.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks for the I do Steve. I didn't make the connection that it was your challenge guitar you were using it on (I must have missed that tidbit somehow). It looks nice. I can't wait to see it buffed out. This is starting to sound like a good option for guys like me.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

The board that I had buffed out soon after the last coat had the finish shrink and sink into the grain over the next few days. It also got harder. So that was enough for me to decide the finish merited a further test. I sanded the board back to where the finish was level and over the next couple of days applied ten coats - leveling somewhat after every third coat. My intention is to sand it and buff it out after Christmas at which point it will have had over two weeks to cure. Again the finish shrunk quite a bit over the first few days but I think it is settling down. I'll provide an update after I buff it out.

Cheers,
Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Well that tells me that a week is going to be the minimum cure time for sure, two would probably be better. On my challenge instrument I won't get done if I wait longer than a week so I'll have to take my chances.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Are we still waiting for a report of how glossy a final finish turned out? Or did I miss it somewhere above?

Don't know about Pat but I'm in the process of wet sanding(mineral spirits) with P1000 at the moment and should be done today or tomorrow. I'll let you know.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"