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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:24 pm
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First name: Dominic
Last Name: Regan
City: Canberra
Country: Australia
I think it curious that people start looking for 'hidden agendas' of green groups. There motive to protect the environment is as clear as businesses agenda is to make money. Both are certain.

But the greens groups do have a point and I would have thought it was in the luthier communities interests to work with them not against them. The proportion of wood going to the lutherie community would be very small and we are generally very appreciative of the woods we use, create little waist and make wonderful objects that enrich peoples lives. Compare that to some banker living off government handouts who has had his office re-lined in maccasar ebony because last years cocobolo decor was no longer stylish.

The fact is, big rich markets like the US have been responsible for the destruction, legal or not of vast tracts of old growth forest from developing countries in the past. Brazillian RW is banned now because its earlier destruction was unchecked. Governments in many of these countries are riddled with corruption and big logging companies have enormous influence in government. So just because wood has been legally logged, does not mean it was sustainably logged or that it did anything other than enrich a few at the expense of the many.

I see a lot of people complaining about the new rules and I agree they seem to have been very badly implemented. But I think a lot more could gained by working with green groups at the local and national level to show them that as an industry, lutherie can be responsible and make a positive contribution to creating a sustainable world and assisting those from communities in developing countries in maximising the returns they receive from the dwindling forest resources.

So contact your local groups, invite them to see what you do. They could be your best friends in this campaign to correct the issues with Lacey.

Cheers
Dom


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:54 am 
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Location: chicagoland, illinois
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Country: usa
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as much as i love wood, and exotic wood, i am glad to see that its use is coming under increased scrutiny, fairly or unfairly, legally or not so legally: we don't NEED guitars, and we certainly don't need to be making them out of exotic woods. simple fact is, global forests are under massive pressure, more than ever before, and the global population is (still) increasing exponentially.
and to top it off, gibson is a greedy company that charges ridiculous prices($3-4000 for a simple electric guitar? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search. ... QAodu1Jmrw), just for the brand name.
note also that the story is from the Wall Street Journal.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:29 am 
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First name: Chris
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Quote:
note also that the story is from the Wall Street Journal.


WTH does that mean?
Their opinion doesn't count?
Aren't you involved in luthiery to make money doing what you like?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:55 am 
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Koa
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Dom, some of the arguments made by the environmental groups are only partly true -- yes, the forests are under pressure. Was it the guitar market that did it, probably not. Madagascar is being leveled to China to make bedroom sets. In the case of Brazilian rosewood, blame McDonalds that gave Brazilians economic incentive to level, no, burn down huge swaths of rain forest and Brazilian rosewood stands to make way for cattle for burgers. There is a convenient nexus of going after the musical instrument industry, but forests aren't being torn down because of our industry -- we are part of it, but not to the extent some suggest. My principle problem with the environmental NGOs is that they say they want to work with the guitar industry but publicly only want to talk about Lacey in terms of Madagascar because that suits their purposes. They don't talk about good actors like India that have been managing their forests since the 1960's and should be a poster child for everything that the NGO's should want globally, but they won't talk about it. They are every bit as disingenuous in their advocacy as the conservatives are on theirs.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I agree with Mr Berkowitz . While it is true we luthiers use this wood , it is the people in the country of origin that are destroying the resource. Most gets slashed and burned and it is isn't just wasted it gets used to cook and heat the natives huts. When you look at how few trees grow luthier grade lumber it is few. Management needs to start in the forest .
How can you tell a native that may see less than $1000 a year not to cut down a tree that may give him food in his belly ? This is not an easy question to answer and the politicos are not making it any easier .

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:34 pm
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First name: Stuart
Last Name: Gort
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Dom Regan wrote:
I think it curious that people start looking for 'hidden agendas' of green groups.


...and I think it's curious when they don't.

Google "Samuel Day Fassbinder".....a marxist whom I have confronted ever since the internet was invented. When I first began with him, he was an elementry substitute teacher and was writing a textbook at that time that boiled down the tenets of "class struggle" for the kiddies to understand. He's a full-on professor today, trying as hard as he can to be Noam Chomsky.

Note his "green" website if you take the time to look him up....and try not dismiss the fact that there are 1000's of Sams in our culture.

The Lacey Act wasn't voted on independently. It was slipped into the farm bill of 2008 that was a slam dunk to pass. One of the tyrannies we face today are laws that are put into effect even though they can't pass an independent vote of Congress. This is what minorities with agendas DO. This occurs with all ideologies, left and right, and it must stop.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Thanks David for taking the time and trouble to fill in the facts missing from the WSJ story.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4915
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Actually Martin has not bought a piece of ebony in 3 years.

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John Hall
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