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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:49 am 
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Koa
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Oh yes, sanding. I positively detest it. If I could get away with a scraper finish (everywhere) I'd dump the evil dust cloud.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:05 am 
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Michael.N. wrote:
Oh yes, sanding. I positively detest it. If I could get away with a scraper finish (everywhere) I'd dump the evil dust cloud.

I do all my finish sanding sitting out on the front porch with an old T-shirt to set the guitar on, and a fan next to my face to blow the dust away. Still end up with slightly mahogany tinted boogers, so it's not perfect, but it's quite relaxing when the weather is decent. Way better than wearing a dust mask the whole time, or breathing the fully concentrated cloud.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:09 am 
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Neck carvings, bridge carvings, side bending (kinda a hand process when you do it on a pipe), end wedges....

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:23 am 
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This is actually a tough question when I stop and ponder it completly , I really dont use alot of hand tools at all . Mostly powered equipment . I guess mainly , in my case, I am a bit adhd and need to see progress every night when im done or i get disinterested .I am sure the quality suffers a bit from that .

I am awed by the hand work I see here and appreciate the excellent talent that many have , [:Y:] [clap] I guess I just dont seem to have the patience . [headinwall]

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:26 am 
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I'm not a perfect handtool fascist, I still use a hand drill for the tuner holes, and I mount it in a stand that makes a decent drill press for the holes in a classical bridge.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:40 am 
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I use both..... I have access to bunches of power tools, but I don't own many - so sometimes I have to choose between do it now by hand or do it later with power tools.... I usually choose do it now by hand...

Then, there are things I have trouble doing with power tools..... so I just do those by hand.

I gotta say - I sure do love power tools for doing some of the rough work... Resawing and thicknessing plates goes *Way* faster and easier.... Routers are pretty handy contraptions too....

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:24 pm 
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I have to say that my steel scraper is so basic to hand building, I can't do without it.
In fact, it has gotten so narrow from sharpening, I'll have to buy a second one. Dang, 35 years, doesn't anything last?

My green Kunz palm plane was maybe $7 back in 1975, probably the best bang for the buck on the bench.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:14 pm 
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Ok ok...me confess...I, me , Duh Pamda uses all sorts of tools,
and yes sometimes me even plug them in. Is true dudes, me wouldn't lie to ya, maybe lead you down the garden path...but sorry no lies...well perhaps the odd tall tale.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:27 pm 
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Haha, hand tool fascist. I like that one.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:46 am 
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I did go through a period where I tried to move exclusively to hand tools but it was before I started building instruments. My introduction to woodworking was through Norm as I'm sure it was to a lot of others and the most unfortunate thing about that show is that after watching it, you think you need all that stuff to make anything.

I was newly married, tricked my wife in to letting me buy a some "Normite" tools but one day we needed to fit a door in the house. It was a little too wide and it was also too wide for the table saw I owned. I really though I needed to buy a hand held power planer but my wife wouldn't let me so, I bought a $20 #4 from sears. It worked enough to fit the door even though I hadn't sharpened it from the store.

After that, I did some investigation, bought an oilstone and managed to sharpen the puppy up and learned that you can do with a hand plane in 30 seconds what it takes 15 min with an R.O. sander. It was quite an epiphany.

Fast forward about 12 years and I now do probably about 50/50 - hand/power. That may change shortly as I'm probably weeks away from buying a CNC machine but that doesn't mean I'm putting my planes on e-bay. I like to choose the tool that's best for me for that job.

When I join tops, I'll run them through the power jointer to get them close, but then I'll use a #6 or a block plane to fit them perfectly. I use the bandsaw to rough out my neck blanks but I'll use a hand saw and chisels to carve the scroll. When I get the CNC, I'll use it to rough out the neck and scroll (among other things) but it's still going to be scrapers and chisels to finish it off

I do prefer using hand tools but I also prefer stringing instruments up and playing them more than just building them. I find that if I didn't use any power tools, that satisfying moment of stringing up an instrument and hearing its voice for the first time wouldn't come frequently enough for me.

I also get a lot of satisfaction in getting my instruments out to players (good banduras are very rare and, I do make nice ones if I do say so myself) and adding a bit more power to the mix will allow me to increase my current volume of about one/year - I hope!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:22 am 
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since I do woodworking/sculpture/carving for a living.....it all comes down to a time element and a mood. Some clients and projects are under a strict time schedule, which means....not time to dilly dally and power tools are mandatory for much of a project. My carving requires hand use...and I'm used to that...But, my guitar building (more a hobby) is more a labor of love and requires no time schedule and gives me a chance to take my time and use my hands to create. I mix it up and do the thicknessing and binding channels with power and do all the other details with the old stumps and sharp blades.

I think I COULD build a guitar nonstop long days in 10 days....but prefer 3 months
Kent

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:00 pm 
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I'm with Michael....hate the sanding! But I am working on mastering the use of (and proper sharpening/honing of) chisels and planes, which I LOVE to use. I think that curl of wood coming past the blade is so satisfying and sweet. My first exposure to luthiery involved the use of a lot of power tools, so I've purchased a lot (bandsaws, drill press, thickness sander, bench sanders and spindle sander). I use the band saw and the drill press the most, but do many operations by hand.

Making my own jigs has taught me tons about using the hand and power tools. I'm willing to experiment with the chisels and planes when there isn't so much at stake. I suck at jointing with a plane, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Koa
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I'm currently making a 19th c Terz Guitar that is not going to see one piece of sandpaper. Well. . . maybe the back of the Neck. . . but we'll see.
Back/Sides are figured Maple. I'm confident I can get a decent finish on that and if the sides wibble wobble around, so what!
Fretboard is Ebony. That's fairly easy to do with a scraper.
Spruce Top is a little more problematic. I guess I'll have to live with a bit of texture.
I think it will be a keeper. I doubt that many would want to buy it, quite simply because it won't pass the industrial auto test.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:08 pm 
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I'm really feelin' the love now!

Michael N, don't start dismissing the finish of a scraped surface. Actually, it should be smoother than a sanded finish, less "fuzzy", and who cares about "wobbles"? It will be true to the standards of the time, a true reproduction, and I would live to see pictures when you're done.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:20 pm 
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crich wrote:
If I'm jointing a board less than 6 feet long I can edge joint it quicker with a hand plane faster than with my jointer ...


Yeah, I know what you mean, I used to have a jointer like that ...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Koa
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David Newton wrote:
I'm really feelin' the love now!

Michael N, don't start dismissing the finish of a scraped surface. Actually, it should be smoother than a sanded finish, less "fuzzy", and who cares about "wobbles"? It will be true to the standards of the time, a true reproduction, and I would live to see pictures when you're done.


Not dismissing it at all David. Just that I dare not ship one out with texture on the soundboard. I suspect that many players might see it as a sign of a bad craftsman. It's what happened to Lundberg, apparently.
There's still quite a way to go on that particular build. I'll post a pic when it's complete.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Koa
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Yes, the soundboard. Spruce doesn't scrape the same way as a hardwood, but violin makers looking for a old looking finish do something to "lower" the summerwood, so there is a slightly "ridged" effect to the spruce, that comes from age.
There was an article in the GAL quarterly with Gary Southwell where he discusses this. #100 I believe.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Once I got my drum sander last year I was kicking my self in the arse for not having one 15 years ago!

I'm getting into double tops now and I'm sure it would be impossibly at least for me to plane to such thinness.

They thing I hate to see for example is "Hand Made" on a junky Washburn or something like that. Heck I use my hand to turn the band saw on so it's hand made :)


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