Official Luthiers Forum!

I agree with Alan.If I can`t make a guitar that sounds good off the bench,I probably would stop making them.I`m sure a dud can happen,but generally speaking I think I should do my very best to accomplish a great sound,by relying on my own skills and instincts.
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Alan, I understand those analysis methodologies. I was a little nervous about posting in a thread that is beginning to take some strange twists and turns.

I would be willing to set up such a test. I saw another website regaring someone's bridge correction gizmo. They set up mics, and a special string plucking mechanism. And, they showed objective evidence (that needs to be verified by others) that their idea works.

Another frustrating aspect to Tonerite's website is the ONLY way you can gain access to their forum is to purchase one of their devices. Sorry, but that drives the snake oil argument home even further. Guess by spending $150 on a potentially useless item will cause you to become an evangelist (so as to avoid seeming silly). Kind of like the ROM excerise machine, it only costs $14,000. Who would say it does not work after spending that much? Even though you can find them on EBay for a fraction of that.

Mike

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Hi Mike,

Me glad to read that you 'n' me, we agree on what reenforces the function of our BS*. Is true. Many of our myths are pepetuated by the $ invested.

I must also concure that this thread is starting to take some strange twists and turns.... I mean you know ...setting up a wierd voodo majic expeiments in the basment to try and check and verify stuff...well thats pritty wierd to me too.

Non the less, I for one would be interested in reading what ever the imperical data reveals , and would be greatfull to them thats got what it takes to delve into the dark
arts of this scientific pagan ritual of matrialisem, and its
"experimental analysis methodologies"

Unfortuanatly, me don't think you gonna get mutch attention being paid to the results by the local witchdoctor shaman or medicinman.

Now we know the placebo effect works....As such, me wonder what type of controle factors
you dudes gonna be employing to filter out the heathen from the "true believers" while conducting this ritual of collecting data?

Furthermore I must ask...who gets to defy which is which witch?

So may I most humbly suggest that great care is taken to not
filter out or rationalizing away observations that do not fit with prior beliefs and expectations.


blessings
the
Padma


PS: Most interesting how a changing perspective point of languaging can really rearrange and challenge the thinking of our brain cells thereby producing all sorts of new thoughts, feelings and emotions that shake and resonate to the very core, the BS we have bought and paid so heavely to believe in.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Padma,

The ROM excersize machine is exactly $14,615. Now explain THAT price point!?! Yes, one's investment will affect one's judgement. The tonerite deal is priced in a range similar to guitar sound effects boxes. If they really want to create evangelists, they should price it 4x more. BUT, the problem is that the desire for "perfect tone" comes nowhere close to the desire for the "perfect body". Both can be measured, but few ever measure.

Humidity & temperature are bigger factors. Maybe the humidity rooms should be shaped like pyramids?

Guitar building is more of an art and less of a science. But science does play a role. And increasingly so. But if you are going to use science to push a new idea, then provide the scientific data. Not freakin "testimonials".

To all who support this tonerite deal with blind faith, I say fine. I am not sure that trotting out experienced luthier's opinions help though. I contacted Mike Doolin regarding his "endorsement" of KTM9 finish. His response was enlightening, more so than "his" endorsement.

Remember, everyday you are in the market place, someone is trying to separate you from your money. And, if they can turn you into an evangelist, all the better for them. There are no short cuts to success. Stop looking for them.

Mike

Ummm Mike ...

now why would me wanna try explaining that for??? Like whats an old wood butcher like me know about the price of points?

Ya Mike, that desire thing keeps getting in the way don't it...I mean, like me think we all know what the Buddha had to say about desire.

Ummm, and by the way...could you, would you please be so kind as to define
"perfect" for the old Padma...me been tryin to figure that out all me life and now you say it can be measured...well I'll be.

Re: humidity and temperature....OH YA ...WAY BIG factors real big time for sure, yup they are. But pyramids, come on, you didn't buy that line now did you?

"Guitar building is more of an art and less of a science" ... now you starting to sound like the Padma. Bless you!

Ummm...sorry Mike ...me use that $19.95 stuff from the Uncle Wally Mart store, so me woulden't know nuthin about KTM9 although me hear a lot of dudes use it.

Oh and regarding short cuts and success ... well me did have some short cuts for sale but me temporarily out of stock...but check back later.
However, I do have some off cuts for them that are interested. And success, gee, aint that kinda like "argue for your limits and sure enough they be yours."




Blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I've made a stinger several years ago and also tried vibrators and a cellphone oscillator. Then I bought a tonerite a few months ago. I was surprised that the max power of the tonerite is only a bit stronger than a cellphone oscillator. Since most owners of this product suggested that it improves the tone quality more at min power setting, I suppose it doesn't have to be so strong after all. Another benefit is that the weaker it is, there will be less(if any) harm to the box.

I lent it to a friend. He commented that he noticed some positive changing just overnight. The reason why I didn't use it regularly is I've experienced more than once, that a player with lousy plucking technique can make a beautiful-sounding guitar sound worse in less than ten minutes. So what's the point making a guitar "more ready" for these people? On the other hand, a well-made new guitar will sound good out of the box and continue to be awaken in the right hands.

Great idea to test see if its the full meal deal. And involving the local GC may actually get some of them there resident misanthropes out of dusty shops into the real world...what ever that may be.

Tests and protocols, yup great idea.


the
Padma

PS: the Padma does have a few bottles of "real" Snake Oil availavle for those that are interested...works great on fretboards...PM me.


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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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What effect is that?

I thought about the same thing... getting some factory made guitars that impose strict manufacturing standards. Regardless, we will still be working with a small population. If anybody understands how to take a small population and extrapolate to values obtained with larger populations (Student T?), that would be useful.

Look at this: http://www.jldguitar.net/science_proven/graphs.html

Mike

As the web site states: “One of the secrets to great tone is continually playing-in your instrument.” Just another reason to avoid practicing. The only thing that makes the tone of my guitar sound better is practice, practice, practice.

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Padma, I was not directly addressing you in my second to last post, and I was using the word "you" generally. I was, furthing my thoughts and only happened to address you because you posted to me.

You all sound so skeptical. Why won't you'll just believe? The tonerite makes good guitars sound better (my guitars sound good right off the bench, btw). I just asked Christie and she agrees. I think it would be easier to sell you guys on voodoo....

Well Glen

Me tried to sell them on voodoo, at a really great price too!
But they wern't buying it. Even offered them me last few bottles of the Padmas
Snake Skin Oil...but no. Oh well.

blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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My point exactly. The sellers of Tone Rite should price this thing at about $599. It will sell like hot cakes. And the owners will gush about how effective it is.

Mike

Check out the Pink Box at the bottom of the page that is used for breaking in an instrument.

http://devineguitars.com/htmlContent/design.htm

Philip

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aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

Philip, good to see someone thought highly enough to promote this type of "break in" as a sales tool. I'm sure many would be interested in hearing about any empirical and/or "blind" subjective testing that got you to this point. I know I am.

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Dave
Milton, ON