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But what are they asking for their guitars? I bought my Gibson J-45 nine years ago for $1300 and the first thing I did was put a set of Waverlys on it an through away those cheap Butter bean tuners that haven't changed design for 60+ years. There was Waverlys on my $2500 Martin ECOOO28. #734 .

Interestingly it varies - New D42s and that like dont have Waverlys, yet small uk makers who are selling at maybe half the D42 price at £1500 + do as standard or Gotoh 510s which also seem a popular choice. I dont know, its something about them... just seems classy especially when you get that nice box!

This forum really needs to let us edit for a longer time.
Threw not Through.

I've used both the Gotoh, and Grover open backs and haven't been able to fault either of them. Not had a go with the Waverly's and when the nickel with ebony button is $160 AUD it's not likely to be any time soon.

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Allen R. McFarlen
Barron River Guitars & Ukuleles
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

I don't believe that the name Waverly is actually synonymous with quality, but more with overpriced than
anything else. Enough people feel differently to keep them selling at those crazy prices though. Sure,
the finish and button choices on the Waverly tuners are nice attraction points, but most players don't
care enough about them to opt for them.

I've never had a single failure on a Grover Sta-tite or Gotoh open backed tuning machine so they are a
reasonable and acceptable choice for me any time.

I'll grab the Waverly tuners if a customer insists on them, but always recommend the less expensive
alternatives that provide equal quality and reliability.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

My most recently acquired hand-built guitar (not a commission, I bought it used) has Waverly tuners and I put them in the same category with the really fancy sunburst lacquer job it has. Neither matters much to me and I wouldn't necessarily opt to spend a lot of extra money on those features. But I've got to admit the sunburst looks pretty cool and the Waverly tuners are very, very smooth and precise and quite nice to look at.

So you certainly do get something for the extra money with the Waverlys. Not necessarily worth it and it's more tactile and visual than musical but hey, that's why every guitar isn't a plain brown box with an unbuffed finish, right?

Yep, you can buy a $500 used car or a sports car. You can use 1 X 3 for trim or get nice crown molding. Not to mention a quality job.

In a comparison of nickel open back tuners with nickel butterbean knobs - the 2nd generation grover is $37 and the Waverly is $144 from Stewmac. I bought a single set of Gotoh open back 510 tuners from Shane for $74 - this isn't the regular version which LMI sells for $55.

The Grover is better in its' 2nd generation - it's a nice positive tuner. The Waverly is better than the Grover in my opinion. It is smoother and has tighter machined tolerances. It just feels better when tuning with Waverlys. I still have a problem with the price, but only if it's my $$ being spent.

I have no experience with the regular Gotoh open backs but the 510 open backs I just received from Shane are easily equal to the Waverly tuners - no joke. They may be slightly better. Gotoh offers a bunch of knob options (other options too) and is $70 cheaper. The only other dealer to offer these in the US wants $110-115 for these same tuners. If Shane weren't around, Waverly would have no competition at all. Hardly anyone knows about them - you mention 510 tuners to most builders and they immediately think of the closed gear version. I think most builders would be pleased with these - in my opinion they are worth the extra $37 over the cost of the Grovers.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

I think the Grovers "feel" looser partly because of the the 18;1 ratio o the "good" Grover Sta-Tites vs. the 14:1 on the Waverlys. The 14:1 Grover Sta-Tites were not upgraded as the 18:1s were, and are not half the tuner the new style 18:1 is. I hope Grover does the same on the 14:1 as I like the ratio a lot better.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I have a set of the grovers on a guitar and I have had no problem with them. I like them.

Pat:

Minor correction...StewMac specs the Waverlys at 16:1 for both peghead and slothead models...not 14:1

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I got to A/B sets of Waverlies and Grovers this weekend on two of my guitars. The Waverlies were by far tighter and more solid feeling. That said, the customer who has the Grovers has absolutely no complaints. They are working very well. My standard is the Gotoh open backs(the ones LMI sells) because of price but I try to steer everyone towards the Waverlies. The Gotohs are nicer than the Grovers but the fact alone that the Wave's are US made makes it worth it to me.

I am about ready to be able to offer replacement oval buttons in any wood for all three of these open back styles. I have the jigs about made for the buttons and the correct shaft holes. I am pretty excited about it.

Also, I am still not clear on the difference between the Gotoh open back 510's and the ones LMI sells. I think they are 710's? What is the actual difference between these?

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

The main difference I see between the open back 510 and the 700 series Burton, is that the 510s have a 4mm high flange that goes up into the tuner hole from the back, negating the need for a double diameter hole ala the waverlie reamer. The flange is shown as 8.7mm diameter, the bottom of the tuner press in bushing on the peghead top is 8.8mm on both the SE510, and the SE510W - the W has a different spacing between the screw holes than the std 510. Neither of these will direct replace a waverlie .. the SE700s will as there is no flange on the plate.....

all of them (510 and 700) are available with a bunch of different button options ... 10 actually.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thanks Tony! I appreciate it. It seems like LMI is selling the 510's after all. The sets I have gotten from them have the flange.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Well there you go !!!!

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I just got some 510 open backs from Shane, and it says "510" right on the base plate. The 700's only have the "Gotoh" name on the plates.

You can see it in the catalogue pictures, note the difference http://www.sounds-planet.com/gotoh_catalog/gotoh-e/htmlfile/se510seseries.html

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Whoops, I am wrong. There is a thicker bit at the bottom of the 710's also but it is not as big as what must be on the 510's and does not correspond at all to the press in bushing size. Soooooo.... scratch what I said. LMI=710's, Shane=510's.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I can get 710's (sic) (they are actually 700 series) as well .

I have asked before for the technical differences from Gotoh but have lost the answer so I have asked my distributor to ask Gotoh in Japan for an explanation of the differences. I do recall that part of the difference is the nylon bushing on the 510's that allows for smoother action and more rigid post but I will get the details in the next couple of days and will update here.

Shane

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Canada