Official Luthiers Forum!

Woody, I'm a sloped shoulder fan myself. I like the line of it and they seem to have a little bit of a difference in tone . But that might be just to me as I have really like the tone of certain J-45s . But like I said certain ones as we all know every guitar doesn't sound the same.

I didn't mean to . But I think it's been alright so far.

Alexandru - being from Germany, I have to agree...steel-string is (or was before the time I moved to Canada) almost synonymous with dreadnought. I still have my first steel-string as well - a plywood dread with a (by now) completely deformed solid WRC top. I love it

But my preference has changed. I find that classical guitars have the ideal body shape for me... I've been toying with the idea of taking a 1937 Hauser outline and design a steel-string guitar around it...we'll see

Christian

I hope I didn’t come off exactly as a dread hater. It’s not like it’s a banjo! I used to like them, but have gravitated away from them from my playing experiences. I appreciate them for there place in music that they excel in, but I’m not into that scene. I figure that people should build what they know and love. For me, that’s finger style acoustics and electric basses. Let the builders who are into the bluegrass scene build for those players. They better know what is expected out of that guitar and will put more soul into it. Others can build for the classical market and others can build for the finger stylists...

I think the OLF has had a large number of dread haters as long as I’ve been reading. When I first started reading here it was a bad word. People didn’t even type the word. D***d.

Another element may be that the vast majority of the SS guitars you see in a store are dreads. You can get them anywhere. They may not be great guitars, but its what’s out there. That may lead to custom builders doing more non dreads, outside of the bluegrass pockets. It’s a good question though. What is the percentages of body shapes for custom builders vs factory?

Why aren't more folks building dread*oughts?

Because they are butt ugly...

Seriously it's been estimated that 70% of the fact*ory guitars sold in the states are dreads. I have always wondered if this is because dreads are what is mostly available in the shops or... if this is largely dictated by the manufacturers desires to produce more dreads for what ever reasons that they may have. Surely, and I am not calling anyone Shirley..., the sides are a bit easier to bend on dreads and minimizing loss and risk is something that manufacturers understand all too well.

OTOH it's my personal belief that if one is going to build guitars for a market it may be that the market is not toiling for weeks to produce something that is invariably compared to a stinkin fact*ory instrument... Differentiation is an important part of any good business plan if the plan is to set oneself apart in some manner. Variations of dreads, cut-aways, slope shouldered, etc. are an example of differentiation.

When I started building just for me I never intended to make a copy of a factory offering. I was not happy with what was available and had already gone the semi-custom route having owned some guitars from boutique, small factories. That convinced me that guitars could sound and play better and I'll add hold better too - a dread is not the most comfortable thing that I have ever held.... guitar wise....

But all of this is a personal opinion of course - my hats off to anyone who builds anything and takes the time and care to do it well.

One last thing: I have played some small body guitars that could drown out a decent dread. Generalizations in guitar building will always bite ya...

No bias on my part, although I may have a small personal preference for the OM. The one I'm working on now is a Dred (curly maple with Engleman top) and the next on my list is also a Dred (EIR with Sitka top).

I have built 2 dreadnaughts.
The first in 1978, it was a successful build, it sold well, and just recently came back for some repairs, sounds great.
The second was about 2 years ago, after avoiding building them for so long because "everyone does them". So my customer says "put up or shut up" and I built the best guitar of my life for him.
I will build a dread again if the customer wants one.
Now, back to my favorite smaller guitars, L-00 and 00.

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Christian, I've been thinking about this for 1 year now too, namely developing a SS using a CG shape, sort of a smaller 000-12. The CG shapes gravitate between 00 and OM's and I think they should work well for picking guitars, perhaps with a bluesy color. Recently a fingerstyle guy played Jiffy jam on my latest Torres style nylon guitar and I swear the tone was not too far away at all!

P.S. this reminds me of a dread I played a while ago at a party, had nylon strings and a fabulous Spanish tone!!! It could have put to shame many flamenco guitars, but let's just say the volume was not really there

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Build log

I have a preference to the smaller sized instruments (parlor, classical, etc) mostly from a personal comfort view. It's easier for me to 'wrap myself' around the instrument while playing.

As far as building, I just haven't done one yet. Add it to the list of 'things to try'...dang, that list is getting longer all the time!

-Matthew

My neck of the woods is bluegrass country and a lot of the players I know wouldn't use anything but a dread because, well just because that's the way it is. My daily player is a dread. I expect I'll be building some too.

I'm another one in the "I have my preferences but they're äll guitars and guitars are good" crowd.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Some interesting links...

page 44 of http://books.google.com/books?id=-3-HcQ ... ry_r&cad=0

http://www.maurysmusic.com/todd_s_marti ... tar_review

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David Malicky

I like the smaller guitars for comfort. You don't have to try and drape yourself over a great big body for the entire time you are playing.
If you want that nice "boom" in your bass, a deep body L-00 or OM will give you more than enough and also deliver a great balance across the rest of the strings.
I just strung up a 4.75" L-00 Adi/Hog build with a ziricote pyramid bridge and soundport and the bass is very strong...
I like the fact that you can plan both comfort and tone (to an extent) in an instrument.
Now if I had the chops to start incorporating Ryan bevels, wedges, etc...I would probably gravitate towards small jumbo's as they are just cool. However, having only just started my sixth build thus far, I think I will crawl before I run.

Ray

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

My feeling is that these different sizes and styles are "Horses for Courses" -- that different guitars were designed for different purposes.

The big body Dread and Jumbo are really very recent innovations in the history of Guitar body sizes. These big guitars were designed in the mid 1930's specifically for playing large halls or outdoor concerts live without amplification... They had 1 mic, and that mic was for the Vocalists. In that setting, a well built Dread or Jumbo is really a must so you can hear them out in the crowd.

Now that we are solidly in the era of good amplification -- the giant body acoustic guitar really isn't as much of a benefit anymore. The guitar designed to project out over 50 rows of crowd isn't an advantage when playing into a PA... The house PA system will project farther than any acoustic instrument ever would... but you need something that will cooperate with the PA system... which a lightly built powerful Dread or Jumbo really won't do.

I have been really surprised by my little GC size Ditson. It has far surpassed all of my expectations. It is currently being "Borrowed" by a local semi-pro musician for recording his latest CD. His comments are that he finds it much easier to control when recording -- to produce the specific sound and volume he wants on the CDs... that it allows HIM to decide how it sounds....

All that said, my 1st "Guitar project" was a Dreadnought, and I know I will be building more.

Thanks

John

I used to be in the dred haters club, not that I put the effort into hating anything per se, but I just thought they were ugly. After I started listening to Michael Hedges and watching videos of his performances the dred really started to grow on me, and the tone he could get out of his Martin was amazing. I am hoping my third or fourth will be a dred, but gotta get #1 done first .

I like the separation in OM-ish guitars, though I did play a D-35 on Sunday in church and enjoyed it. Most of the time I prefer the tone of an OM to a Dread.

My guess would that since the vast majority of entry level instruments are dreads, so are the majority sales.

I don't even have the top on my recent build yet but I think it sure is a pretty Dred for those of you who say Dreds are ugly. Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
This baby has more curves then my last girlfriend. And Sweeter too.

I need a cheat-sheet for all these dang guitar models, it's way too easy to get confused

A dread is about the only model that i could consistently identify.

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-Marcus
http://www.bailieguitars.com
Instagram | YouTube

That's OK. A Dred is all that matters in this discussion.

I used to think Martin Ds were the only "real" guitars. I had a very nice '57 000-18 around that time, but sold it because it didn't have the boom of a dread. But I'm better now.

I've built mostly OMs, and one dread, this one.



Nothing special, EIR/Sitka, scalloped top braces. Building it taught me a lot. Bluegrassers who have played it love it. I'll mostly stick with OMs and L-00s, since that's what I know best. But I'm talking to a couple people who want dreads. Resistance is futile.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

This was my thought as well. Not many use a dread in a true acoustic sense for which it was originally designed. If amplified, you should look for overall tone rather than shear volume. Most don't need a banjo killer. Let the PA do the work.

And..theres Hesh. I almost thought you left us. I figure you'd chime in on the d***d debate. Post some pics of what's been happening at Heshtone already!!!

So...
I like the way they sound - but not how they feel when I play 'em. I have a shoulder injury, and that wide bottom combined with the width of the body is just not comfortable for me to play.

Also - purely an aesthetic issue - I like my guitars shaped like Marilyn Monroe, not like Drew Carey.
(No offense meant, Chris - that truly is a beautiful guitar)

Have you ever played one with a armrest and ribrest? You all might be surprised what a differance they can make. Not to sure if it would help with your shoulder though. But try one of the small bodies with a rest if you get the chance.

And topless to.....although the vision I had was ruined when you mentioned Drew Carey!

I could never understand the asterisk crowd who have chosen to denigrate Dreds over the years. Try telling Tony Rice, Doc Watson or some of the other virtuosos that their chosen guitar is considered to be a less-than-worthy instrument as determined by builders supposedly catering to players. Sure, it's perfectly acceptable to have a favorite style and shape...but please have tolerance for others who have their favorites as well.

As far as building Dreds, it seems that since I built my slope-shouldered 12 string, several interested local players have expressed interest in Dreds. Could be something in the air! I don't plan on treating them like asterisks!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I can see the argument that the loudness of a dreadnaught is not necessarily needed with the PA systems available today. Of course this assumes you will be using a PA system which isn't always the case.

The big difference I like about the dread is the bass "cut" or "attack" some of the dreads have. I've never heard a smaller guitar that has that same sound. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I haven't ever played one. At some point I would like to try creating that sound in OM sized guitar (any hints? <smile>). I've heard that Mario makes a baby dreadnaught with a good bluegrass cut. If true I would love to play one!

Just so I'm understanding the point some of you are trying to make, when you describe the "boom" of a dreadnaught, are you referring to the bass "cut" you get when the initial string attack? Or are you referring to a loud, muddy, not very defined sound? Possibly something else? I like the bluegrass bass "cut" sound but I don't like a muddy sound.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Like I said earlier I build mainly Dreads and slope Dreads. I like 'em all. Flatpickers and Chicken pickers( <like me) aren't the only ones that play. There's got to be some guitars for the guys with long fingernails too

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
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