Official Luthiers Forum!

Fish Glue !
No heat ,no problems,high tack !!

the new Gorilla white glue works great !
high tack -drys clear-and is available in most hardware stores.

There are only a handfull of glue makers in this country!

The Titebond Co.
The Bordens/ Elmer Co.
for 2 of the most recogonized ones.
I would think a little wood supplier in Ca. buys in bulk from one of these suppliers.
So the product would be the same -hopefully as the suppliers glue.

I have used Lmii's white for years and love it!

My 2 cents!
Mike

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Mike Collins

Mike,

I've never tried Fish Glue. Where would be the best source for that? I'm also in search of the supplier with the best pricing on the West System Epoxy. I'm not confident that my current source has the best price.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

The only fish glue source I know of is Norlands. https://www.norlandprod.com/Fishdefault.tpl but there's probably others. I think it's ironic that fish glue disolves in water, but fish don't

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Some do and some don't, depends on their 'scale' of sole-ubility I guess. Oh, never mind, just angling for the halibut.

Cheers

Kim

You can also get fish glue here: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... ,110,42965

I'm using it for my first build, so far with apparent success.

Joe

A lot of thought and work went in to my glue tests and were originally meant for my own learning. It was only recently that I posted them on my website for anyone to read. I had nothing to gain for promoting one product over another nor was the article intended to sway anyone's choice. All glues were purchased by me and I have never received any produts or compensation in any form.

The reason I chose steel for the tests was to eliminate wood's inherant varibility. I used hot hide glue exclusively for a number of years after experiencing some "issues" with Titebond's original formula. There was a significant and discernable change in my guitars overal performance after that switch which was enough to convince me there was a difference in glues and their tonal properties. This change is what initially sparked my interest in testing glues.

There is and will always be "spectulation" as to which product is best for the particular application. My testing was meant to eliminate hunches, gut instinct, spectulation and guesswork and focus on scientific fact to allow me to choose a glue for my guitars. The Ah-Ha moment was actualy seeing the vibration spectrums of each glue. There is no way to manipulate these spectrums and WYSIWYG.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Howdy Tim,

I for one am thankful that you took the time and effort to do all the testing. Your's is the only I've seen to do such comparisons. From your second report, did I understand correctly that you have switched to LMI's white glue? I've been contemplating the use of it instead of Titebond. If you do use the LMI, what is your preferred method of gluing up Cocobolo? I've always used Titebond for that with success but am wanting to move away from it to things more specifically proven successful in lutherie. In addition, have you used Fish Glue at all, and what are your thoughts on it? I have great respect for your experience and opinions on this.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Tim,

I too appreciate the testing and your willingness to share your results. I hope I didn't make it sound as if I thought you were pushing any of the glues with your results. Your write-up struck me as unbiased and informative. Personally, I've made the switch to LMI white as a result of your testing. Thanks again for the info.

- Flori

Tim,

I appreciate the testing you did and that you posted the results.

I'm curious if you have tested fish glue.......and if you did, how close it was to HHG? I would test it myself if I had access to a hardnes and vibration testor.

Again, I apprecite you sharing your data.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Hi guys,
Thanks for the kind words and glad you found the articles helpful in your work.

Bill,
I have glued up dozens of sets of Coco with LMI white and have never had any issues. As soon as I run the gluing edge through the jointer I glue up the joint immediatley and don't allow it to oxidize which may be where folks have some less than satisfactory results. About a year ago I abandoned the use of hide glue used on top braces for LMI white. I still use hide for bridges but don't ask why... I just do for no particular reason?

Sorry but I have not tested fish glue but will gladly do so. Someone posted the link above, to several fish glues but which one of the fish glues are y'all using?

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim,

Norlands makes the fish glue and re-packages it for Lee Valley and I believe anyone else who sells it. If you only want a little bit, give David Collins a call, he buys it in somewhat large quantities from Norlands and he might just sell you a couple of OZ's.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Tim, why did you switch to LMI white for braces?

There aren't any discernible [tonal] differences to justify the hassle of using hide glue on top / back braces IMO. White is sooooo much easier and quicker to use. After I saw the nearly perfect vibration decay spectrum on the vibration bump test that eliminated all doubt in my mind as the right glue to use on my guitars.

Rod,
Will do. Thanks for the info.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

My sentiments backed up by the thoughts of a Master Luthier.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I used Titebond on all my instruments up till about 2000, when I used LMI for one, then went to hide and I'm not looking back. They are plenty strong, and they all release with heat. I believe if you use any one glue, and learn all it's ins-and-outs, your guitars will be fine.

The only problem I've had, was with Titebond gluing a sq. steel rod in the neck. The rod rusted and became loose. Pilot error, not the fault of the glue.

I use epoxy for CF rods in the neck.

Last few guitars I've used hide for the fretboard w/o problems. I leave the neck shaft thick till the fretboard is glued on, no bowing, either 12 or 14 frets, with CF or truss-rod. Hide just doesn't seem to induce any bow.

I always got bowing with Titebond, but I figured on it, and profiled the neck accordingly.

I didn't get bowing with LMI glue.



Anyone read the American Lutherie article about Joseph Curtin, the violin maker? He almost apologetically told of using Franklin Hide Glue, and for about everything. He said he trusted it and got "warm fuzzy" confidence in using it.

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

I have been thinking the same thing - I don't have anything to order from LMI - I don't want to put in an order just for glue. LMI does not make glue - so what is it then ? Is it the same a Gorilla's white glue ? I would be happy to use something local - rather than pay more in shipping than the product is worth.
I glued the back on my guitar - and of course I have a little bit of yellow glue around my linings, that can be seen from the soundhole - I would feel better if it were clear glue.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

One thing I'll chime in with is that anyone using EmTech6000 as a finish will definitely NOT want to use Titebond anywhere on the outside of the guitar. EmTech6000 will shrink it! Does not appear to have that affect on LMI white though, so I've since switched to ALL LMI white.

I've just started on my first bottle of LMI white & so far, I really like it. Clear drying is a big plus.
It seems to slide a little less than AR glue & cleanup is a snap.
For Cocobolo, I'll stick with fish glue, but most other joints will be done with LMI.
I use West Epoxy for heel & tail blocks & fingerboard.

I reckon that LMI white glue may just be re-badged Weldbond......



However it must be stated here and now that I base my assumption on no more than a hunch and an itching of my left elbow which starts as soon as I see the two bottles side by side and only dissipates when I say something stupid.....obviously I never itch for too long.

Cheerski

Kim

Tim McKnight recently stated some new thoughts on his acoustic glue tests. It seems that the "cracked engine crank shaft" analogy that was posted in this thread may have been what was happening in Tim's test.

For those who haven't see Tim's recent comment:

Re; Weldbond glue,

The address on my bottle states:

Frank T Ross & Sons INC
Toronto, Ontario
Canada.

It's a very good 'white' glue, drying hard and clear, looks, acts and smells like a PVA but seems to have something added that reduces the open time a bit, dry more crystaline and stick like poop to a blanket. I have used it in the past to fit plastic bindings and had no issues with any sort of de-lamination even after years. I seriously do wonder if this is in fact what LMI are using for their brand of glue.

Cheers

Kim