Official Luthiers Forum!

Looks like alot of work went into that one.Sounds nice too.Great job!

Laurent, that's an exquisite looking guitar. Very inspiring. I have to say the look of that Turner-esqe floating neck heel is growing on me as well. I might just move in that direction. Thanks for posting this.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Another thing - I am also thinking about trying solid/laminated linings. Do you have any thoughts to share about that - either about the process/method, or about results with regard to rim stiffness, sound, or anything? Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Nice Laurent, that looks great! Just love the boxed theme, even the fingerboard... really nice. By the way was it you who convinced Dana to start experimenting with oil varnish?

To a novice like me thats so pretty its scary....what alot to learn!

Thanks again…


To laminate sides I use the mold used to build the guitar, stack the halves, plus a layer of routed 3/4" MDF in between, all secured with 1/4" bolts (of course the halves & MDF must be 100% identical). The laminated linings can be assembled on top of the laminated side in the mold (with a layer of paper in between), taken off, and then cleaned up, rounded over etc. and finally glued to the rim. That's the best way to do it IME as they MUST exactly conform to the inside curves of the sides, they're extremely stiff… In any case I had to kerf the inside of the linings for the waist and upper bout to conform to the change of depth in the body. I used layers of .045" mahogany & spruce (2 x mahogany - 1 x spruce - 2 x mahogany for the back, and vice-versa for the top). Probably overkill, they look cool though.
Obviously those laminated linings are stiffer than reverse-kerf ones, themselves stiffer than regular kerfed ones, but I am not convinced of anything.
Not to start a polemic, but once the top and back are glued to the rim and lock the structure in place, the added stiffness must not make much difference. Tentellones would be another story…
I can not discern any difference in tone due to linings, neck joint etc.. With all the "new" features (for me), it sounds just like one of my guitars. In spite of the laminated sides/linings and very stiff upper bout structure (the neck block has a Spanish foot butting on 1st back brace and paddle butting on UTB) the guitar sounds very open and "ambient".


Lars, as you know I don't think anybody could convince Dana…
I thought they were experimenting with FP?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

That guitar is beautiful. Congrats.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Wow - CHAPEAUX, Laurent!

Best regards from Germany,
Martin

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Martin G.
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www.best-eurospruce.com

Thanks, Laurent!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Laurent,
Positively stunning. Beautiful work!

Chuck

Laurent, what a sweet sounding guitar! Beautiful!

Question: At first thought that neck joint looks daunting to a newbie like me, BUT... when i think about it, it eliminates all the neck joint/fit issues that i'm not looking forward to. Would you consider this type of neck joint simpler to exectute than a bolt on? I was thinking about doing one with the full fretboard extension as part of the neck and then set into a routed top (i think it was mr. collins that posted some pics of how he did it). Yours seems to eliminate for the need of the routed top. To be honest i was nervous that it would be a source of a rattle. I had also looked at some elevated neck designs but none that I felt i wanted to pursue yet.

Thnx!

No


The top is routed to let the 2 CF rods running full height under the FB extension, two 3/16" channels about .200" deep. The neck block is footed and also has a paddle under the top where the channels are. No rattle as the neck pushes on the set screws with over 160lbs of string tension. The set screws butt on brass inserts BTW.
Those two approaches are different beasts, the adjustable neck needs to be treated like a neck with a floating FB extension would be.
With the traditional approach of gluing or fastening the FB extension the string tension load is distributed on the top as well, which really helps stabilizing the structure. Some would say detrimental to tone, but that's arguable as a lot is with lutherie.
With a floating FB the load is concentrated on the top of the neck block and on the neck heel. The neck heel is end/short grain and not too strong in the direction of the load.
On this B-3 there is a mortise/tenon joint that is not particularly useful except the slender heel is really beefed up by the tenon. I also drilled for a 3/8" maple dowel going full length in the tenon. It seems to help as I haven't seen any deformation yet and the guitar has been strung for over a month with light PBs.
On a previous experiment I did a floating FB extension (bolt-on mortise and tenon), non adjustable, and didn't beef up the heel or the neck block. What happens is the heel bends enough with string tension to bring the FB extension closer to the top, inevitably raising the action. It is strung with Xtra lights now and I need to work on it, either solidly fastening the extension to the paddle under the top, or running a steel tube in the neck heel, or both just to be overkill.
On the latest guitars I'm working on there is no mortise or tenon, the heel is flush with the upper bout but is reinforced by a 3/8" hollow steel tube (filled with a hardwood dowel) going full height, and that's where the bolts used to set the action butt. This is directly influenced by Rick Turner's method. The neck block is also beefed up with an interesting piece of joinery. We shall see when I string them up.
To answer your question, there is no free lunch (never is) and the mortise/tenon joint is probably the easiest to execute, that and a flush heel with hanger bolts.
A structure is as strong as the weakest component is.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Stunning guitar Laurent. First guitar I've seen of yours......and I'll sure be watching for the next!

I'm not familiar with the varnish finish you used. Have you posted on it before where I could go read about it?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Ok, the top and the FB are routed. I missed that detail the first time. the 160 lbs of pressure must be why Mr. Collins wasn't concerned with any rattle. He doesn't glue his either.

Thanks for the post! It's all very interesting.

I'm not expecting a free lunch, just looking for a shorter walk to the restaurant!

I didn't mean it that way, I meant there's no perfect and easy solution…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/