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Alan,

Do you pore fill with anything before applying Rock Hard, or do you let the varnish fill the pores. Just curious, as I'm tempted by the option you mentioned...FP top, Rock Hard Back & Sides.

Thanks,

Flori

Thanks Flori razor blade or credit card it it then I'd intended to use one of the rubber wipers for wiping group into the gaps when tiling. Milburn tutorial is good and halfway through and it explains why a tutorial on you tube had problems with pore filling with pumice, bet he wished he'd know about it too.

Thanks again guys for the info on all the options off to search the archives don't want to turn this into a French polish thread if there is a vast array of stuff in the archives my only worry with doing that as always is getting lots of different often conflicting processes to reach the same goal and not having the knowledge or experience to chose the correct one.

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Then again, Al may very well be right that a FP finish on the soundboard really does make a difference on a classical guitar. I'm certainly not going to argue with him on that point.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

For my current build, a dreadnaught, I was going to try tru-oil over everything, since I've seen so many nice jobs done by others on this forum with it.

I've used it on necks and really liked everything about it.

It would seem, though, that the concensus in this thread is that it's really not all that scratch or impact resistant. This is my first steel stringer, and I wanted something more durable than a french polished finish, which is what I used on my first, a classical.

If I were just building this one for myself, I'd just go ahead and try it, but this one's for a friend's son for a Christmas present. Has anyone had any long-term satisfaction with a tru-oiled body?

Thanks.

Clint Beacock

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-Clint Beacock

Whether or not you pore fill, under any finish, is up to you and the customer. If you are building 'on spec' and don't know who the customer will be, you should pore fill. The standard of excellence in finish these days is the 'Lexus look': acres of perfect gloss smoothness without a scratch or swirl mark, and you won't get there in any rational amount of time without filling the pores on any wood more open grained than cherry.

Varnish shrinks a lot, and takes it's time to do so. If you don't like the look of wood grain showing through, and can't wait three months for the varnish to finish (more or less) shrinking, then you should pore fill. I've used paste filler, water based clear filler, super glue, epoxy, shellac/pumice, and probably a few other things as fillers over the years. As with finishes, they all have advantages and drawbacks. I'm considering trying sheet rock mud with a bit of fresco color, just to see how that works. I bet it will be OK once I get the hang of it, and have some problems, too, just like every other filler.

You might think you're doing this to get a guitar, but really you're here for the education, like it or not.

What are peoples opinions on a hybrid finish? I'm thinking now after seeing how well the epoxy pore fill makes the wood look amazing about French Polishing the top for sonic reasons and using Rustins plastic coat on the back and sides or will the 2 finishes look odd side by side?



Alan that is so true!!

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

I have done several KTM9 and a couple nitro back and sides with FP tops. The don't look odd at all

I've done hybrids as well and they look fine. I love the feel of French polish, but every time I do it I swear I'll never do it again. By fingerjoints are getting knobby from all the hand work. There is a place for Colortone water-based lacquer in my shop - maybe an increasing role.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

You can mix and match without it looking odd so long as you don't use more than one sort of finish on one surface. I don't use lacquer, but I often FP a top and use Rockhard varnish on the B&S and neck. I recently used Tru-Oil on a neck, at the customer's request, and that looked OK too. It takes a little longer when you use more than one sort of finish: you've got to get one of them on before you can start the next one. When I do a varnish-FP job I brush the varnsh on first, and then do the FP while the varnish is curing. This way it doesn't add much lead time: you'd want to wait for the varnish to cure anyway.

Fantastic discussion! I just finished my latest creation with some Bartley Gel Varnish. Was very easy, but it's a matt finish, didn't turn out to bad, but it takes forever to build it up. After almost 2 weeks of build up, dry, more build up, more dry, I finally said "that's enough" and today took wet 600 grit and then Meguires Fine cut cleaner to it. Not to bad, but to be honest it looks like a hobby finish, just doesn't quite have that "pop" to it.

Regarding the laquer spraying posts, how about Deft laquer? Same considerations? Doesn't have that word "nitro" in it, can it turn out as good? Buff out as good? Thanks

Dave

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God, Family, Carreer

Dave, Deft is a little soft for guitars, but I think Harry Fleishman has used it. If I'm not mistaken, it's nitro based.

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Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

It is Nitro based, but it has a bunch of other stuff in it to make it level before drying. It is nice for furniture, but soft for guitars. It's got properties like that flex lacquer that they use on plastic car bumpers. It works great as a brushing lacquer. I don't know the difference between the brushing and spraying versions, if there is any.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks guys, you just helped me decide my next one won't be done with Deft. I really want to try a laquer finish, but I do not have spray equipment or a good place to do it... but I can't stand brush marks and the work involved trying to get rid of them. Maybe ColorTone from SM?

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God, Family, Carreer

Properly applied there should never be a single brush mark in a brushed on lacquer finish. You don't paint it on you allow it to flow out the back end of the brush. the bristles should just ever so lightly touch the surface and always leading the way, and never gone back over. This allows the lacquer to flow out the end of the brush and because of its viscosity it flows with out brush marks. Now to do this requires a small amount of practice and a quality and properly prepped natural bristle brush. Once you get the hang of how to properly brush on lacquer it is simple.