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I used the Poly Whey and the KTM sample and the KTM was superior but it's not available so if you have guitar that needs finishing now the KTM is not an option..

Having said that, the Poly Whey is a very fine water borne finish in my opinion and I'd use it again. It doesn't, apparently meet some of the more demanding finish requirements of some builders but I found it very, very nice.

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Thank You and Best To All

I received a e-mail from the Poly-Whey makers
last week.
They have developed a version for instrument makers.

What the differences are I did not ask.
I prefer a soft but not gummy finish.

Listen to guitars that are French Polished.
They have more life than heavy hard finished guitars.
They are flexible!

I'm tired of the changes that the other water based makers have done
over the years.
Ya never know what formula your going to receive!

I'll use this because it works for me.
The low VOC helps allot also.

Happy instrument making!

Mike

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Mike Collins

Poly Whey?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Mike,

From what you posted it looks like Poly Whey has made some changes just like the '"other water based makers have done." Will you try, have you tried, the new formula for instruments? Curious about what those changes might be.

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Thank You and Best To All

Just put on the 4th coat. I started with bare wood, hand rubbed Mohawk's Ultra Penetrating stain, let it dry 24 hours and shot the first coat of Poly Whey. No sealer, no filler. It may be a mistake, but I wanted to see what it would do. I sprayed the first 3 coats and I just brushed the 4th coat. I wanted to see how the brush strokes would flow. So far, it is working fine. We'll see how many coats it take to fill the pores without filler.

James

Mike,

You are still advocating the Poly Whey, and I agree completely with your assessment on superhard vs flexible finishes. (My sense is, once you get your French Polishing skills up to snuff, there is so little finish on the guitar when you are done that the question of whether you are denting the finish or the wood is pretty academic. Not saying I'm there yet )

You obviously know both this product and the FP, and my question is, what are potential advantages of the PolyWhey over a standard FP? Time? Durability? How about FP'ing top and PolyWhey on B&S?

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

For me it would be susceptibility to perspiration issues, which FP is known for.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

My Poly Whey guitar is done for all intents & purposes - sorry, no photos.

My only other experience is with nitro. Here's the best I can summarize at this point.

Poly Whey won't give you that glassy ultra transparent deep shine like nitro, but it will give a nice warm shine that doesn't look like plastic IMO.

It is softer than nitro. You can dent it with your fingernail but I don't think it's too soft for a guitar. Only time will tell.

It won't fill pores, or at least it won't fill the pores in Macassar ebony. The peghead on my guitar has a Macassar veneer. I filled with Z-Poxy and missed a spot. After 4 heavy coats of brushed on Poly whey, the pores still show through.

I tried the Poly Whey because I was going to finish a guitar in the winter & couldn't spray nitro in my garage or basement. I sealed with shellac & filled with Z-Poxy. It's pretty easy to apply by brush or spray & you can level sand in a few days. I'd give it at least a week before trying to buff. Unfortunately I haven't used any other water base finishes but I think the Poly Whey is decent stuff. Not as nice as nitro but a lot easier - no fumes, easy cleanup, faster dry time before sanding/buffing, easy to brush if you don't have a spray setup.

Hope this is helpful.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Larry I have not tried the new formula
for luthiers.
I hope to soon.
I sent an e-mail asking what they changed.
Have not received a reply yet.
I'll post it here as soon as I get it.

Mike

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Mike Collins

[You obviously know both this product and the FP, and my question is, what are potential advantages of the PolyWhey over a standard FP? Time? Durability? How about FP'ing top and PolyWhey on B&S?[/quote]

Poly Whey is easier to apply.
YES FP a top & spray the rest.
Durability has yet to be found out.
They do use it for floors!
Check out their site.

Mike

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Mike Collins

I am getting a great deal of fish eye when I spray the Poly Whey. This is my first attempt at a waterborne finish. I have never had a fish eye problem with nitro. Can someone help here?

James

Fish eyes as bubbles in the finish?
Did you use naptha on the guitar?
ANY oil base cleaner?
It can NOT be used for an instrument that
a Water base finish will be the top coats!
Just asking!
Mike

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Mike Collins

So, you shouldn't use any Naptha on the wood if you are using a water-based finish?

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Pat

Fish eyes in that the finish seems to avoid certain spots. I call it fish eye. There may be a more accurate term for it.


I did not use any naptha or oil based cleaners. It could be the stain I used, and the fact that I did not use a sealer over it. Here are the contents of the Mohawk Ultra Penetrating stain:


I spoke with someone at Vermont Coatings a while back and they indicated that it would be fine.

The top seems to be worse than the back and sides. The only thing different with the top is that I thinned some of the burst colors with denatured alcohol.

James

That looks like sort of what I've experienced when trying to spray lacquer over an area where I sanded through the sealer. I'm guessing some sort of surface contamination but that's only a guess.

I spayed my first coats but ended up brushing the final coats on the top & back because I sanded through while leveling. I feel that spaying the Poly Whey is not as easy as lacquer, but I just got the hang of nitro.

Here's the back to give an idea of the shine.

And here's the peghead. I sanded through on the treble side but decided to let it go until I felt motivated because I did such a lousy job on the pore fill. It obviously needs more work.

...and the nut needs finished up too, but it plays well

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Kevin, I'd recommend at least 2 weeks before final leveling. On my first try I found that the Poly Whey shrank a bit after 1 week. This last neck and top I did I waited 2 weeks and it still seems to be fine after about 6 weeks.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Klooker, you have something worse than fish eyes in your finish. I noticed a big pair of Elmo eyes!!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

It must be late. I thought I saw Mary Magdalene.
Yup, you're right, Tony, thats Elmo.
I'm going to bed, before I see Mel Torme in the headstock.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Could there be some sanding dust under the finish? I had the same problem with a General WB finish last year on only one panel of several that I was spraying. The only thing that I could come up with was I didn't wipe it down properly after level sanding. After a thorough sanding, vacuum, and wipe down with distilled water, it finished correctly.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Did you wipe it down with sesame seed oil??

I was thi ku g the same thing, just needs some Emlo grease.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

What, you guys have never used Elmo Sapele?

One thing I noticed with Poly Whey, & maybe this is the case with all waterbased finishes, is that it doesn't seem to melt into the previous layer. I level sanded with 400 grit & I can still see the sanding marks in the finish. Anyone else experience similar?

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I just noticed that last night. I sprayed a coat yesterday and I can see the level sanding marks on the previous coat.

James

I ended up level sanding with p600 grit to help avoid those visible sanding marks. Took a bit longer but much better results than using anything coarser.

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Thank You and Best To All

I see the marks when I start sanding but after going up through the grits and doing the final polish they seem to go away.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"