Official Luthiers Forum!

I am kicking around buying some sets. They aren't excellent grade. Most aren't old growth but they are less than $300 a set. Not sure if they're even quartersawn.
I see no reason I couldn't make a lot of profit on the sets though. It seems logical to get them.

But I'd love for you experienced people to talk me out of it if its a bad decision. Just seems like these deals don't come around a lot.

I have certainly bought my share of BRW, and I would rather spend more on one nice set than a little on several sub-par sets.

Honestly I wouldn't buy any of these. I would put all $900 in one nice set.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Actually it's more like $206.50 after shipping a set. I still think it's a great buy but I've got a nice set of figured Olivewood for the next guitar and an awesome set of Cloudy Cocobolo for the one after that. I'd be picking these up just to flip them but since I don't have the actual cash it's probably safer to not rack up the credit card bill after I just payed it off

Here it is though guys. Let me know how they are if someone buys them!
Lot of 10 BRW sets
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAZILIAN-ROSEWOOD- ... dZViewItem

I was just wondering about Brazilian rosewood, what CITES classification are they under and since it is unlikely that I will find a set in Taiwan I would certainly have to import it if I wanted to use it. Is it even possible for me to find it and what are the penalty for a CITES violation?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

You have to look at your motives for buying BRW. Are you just looking to build an instrument for yourself? I might suggest you do as Brock says, but the temptation to use it immediately would probably be strong.
If you are figuring on offering it as an option for customers, you probably will have to be a pretty well recognized builder before someone is going to drop and extra 1-5K on the option. Also, consider that most BRW is crack prone (especially the old stuff). You can get around that, but it is a problem.
Best bet is to stick with some nice mahogany or Indian or other not so expensive exotics if you have to have fancy, and spend the extra $$ on tools. When you can build a fabulous guitar out of pallet wood then start thinking about expensive exotics.
Oh, yea, you better figure you can't make a profit on this stuff...

Yes, I tried to sell a guitar I had built myself off of ebay. I swear to God they wouldn't buy it even if I offered it for one cent buy it now! Reputation means a lot in the instrument making world it seems, so it doesn't seem like a trade you can just get up and started and get enough to make a living at (unlike translation). You might be better off offering repair or tune-up services.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Honestly, I wouldn't do that.

With respect to the CITES question that was raised earlier. Those sets are out there. You can get BRW with CITES papers.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

people that can actully
hear the sound qualities of brw are going to be knowledgable about tonewoods. they'll look at those examples and say "naw!".

All these sets are prettier than a Sebastian Stenzel I've seen! I'd say go for it, Alex. At $200 a set it's only a little more(or not) expensive than MadRw or Amazon RW B&S. I suppose most guys who definately want BRW might start questioning the quality of these sets only if they knew these sets didn't cost you premium dollars.

Back on topic

These wood look very pretty, however there are many other woods that look almost as good but doesn't cost nearly as much. Ideally I suppose most people want straighter grains rather than wild grain (that often looks prettier) but have runouts all over the map. However, most curly woods have wild grains too but most would want that on their guitar.

I would probably get it too because of its looks if I could.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

When I first started building I was ordering wood from Walter Lipton at Euphonon and he asked how many I'd built. I think it was 5 or 6. He said "I can't give you the good stuff yet" There was some wisdom there.
TJK

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

yeah. I believe that! Which is why my next build will be with some cheaper figured olivewood

On a side note- I am already under the belief that some macassar ebony or mad. rosewood is equal to or better than 80% of the BRW that is being sold now days. I went to a luthiers shop here in Spokane and heard various taptones and the BRW he had was nowhere near as great sounding as some of his other sets.

I am not all that experienced with tones, but what is "good" anyways? It seems rather subjective...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

It is not subjective, and not all about taptone either. It's a waste of time for an experienced builder to use anything else but the best (s)he can get.

Those Braz sets are not the worst I've seen sold on eBay, but I'd be wary to build anything with #13. In any case I'd flood it a few times during the build with thin CA or thinned warm epoxy, and flood it again after the box is built and fully trimmed. Good candidate for double-sides too… If it was me, I'd cut it up for headplates and bridgeplates.

I fail to see what profit one could make with those sets, there is much, much better stuff available out there.

Brazilian is no more crack-prone than ziricote, bloodwood or ebony, meaning it is crack-prone, but perhaps not the worst. It just hurts more when an expensive set cracks…

FYI you could get tonally and visually outstanding cocobolo or Honduran RW sets for the same price.

You got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less. It reminds me of folks who buy a gazillion cheap guitars, instead of saving some $$$ and buy one outstanding instrument.

Figured olivewood, cocobolo or Braz are not for the inexperienced IMHO, and I would never consider those woods cheap, or even easy to work with. Anything with figure spells trouble 99% of the time. There's a reason why plain mahogany, walnut and EIR are commonly used for first guitars: they're inexpensive, stable, behave well and make good sounding guitars.

BTW, what is "cloudy cocobolo"?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

It's a crazy cool figuring that, as far as I know, only comes from one tree that Hibdon Hardwood has. No idea if they have any more, but there was recently a batch that all sold extremely quickly. Here are some pictures, 719 is mine


Oh, and did anyone notice that guy's ziricote auction? http://cgi.ebay.com/ZIRICOTE-GUITAR-MAKERS-BONANZA-LOT-10-SETS-AAA-/200482515598?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2eadb06a8e
All of those sets look decent, and some are pretty amazing. I think 4 and 10 (counting from the top) are my favorites.

I got 718 (not pictured).
I'm saving that one for my 3rd build! such beautiful figure I had to secure myself a set. It'll be sad if the one tree Hibdon has is it when it comes to this figure as Andrew @ Hibdon said that I got the last set iirc.

As for figured wood being troublesom, I Bent quilted maple after 4 practice walnut sides. I thought that one was supposed to be difficult to bend but it actually bent easier than the walnut. Regardless, using a heating blanket and mold like a Fox bender makes things pretty easy. I'll eat my words if I break the figured olivewood on my next build after stating this.

And for the record, I didn't buy the BRW. I trust your collective opinions before jumping into anything I'm not sure about. thanks again!

I think you got plenty of good advice here so far. Personally I would advise against high figure wood for firs builds....if that's the case.

Just for the record, the sets picture are not high figure. Just poor quality and bad cuts. Not a chance I would consider using it at any price. Get yourself a nice set and make one awesome guitar with it.

good luck,

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Agree. I try to stay away from non quartered wood (especially for ribs), and if the wood has some rift or flatsawn to it, it goes way to the outside of the instrument and hopefully only on the edges of the lower bout. There is a reason Martin and other companies used quartered BRW on their guitars.

As far as using the "best" tonewoods available as a beginner, I don't agree. You can make an incredible guitar out of "A" grade tops and even QS oak for a back. It's more important to learn the different tonal qualities of different woods, both tops and backs, and learn your graduations and bracings.

I agree. EIR/Mahogany and Sitka are great woods for your first guitars.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

...playing devil's advocate a second though... If you consider that the making of a good guitar is a combination of the skill in construct AND the qualityof material, in which the material will have a major influence on the tone, at what point do you begin to introduce quality woods? Thing is if you build 4 or 5 sitka, Hog/EIR guiatrs and they all sound the same...ish... when do you begin to learn about the tonal characteristics of the vaious types and quality levels...

I can understand form a B+S set perspective its seems silly to risk an expensive set at and early satge, but given that price difference between a A and AAA or even master Sitka set is less than a cheap set of tuners, is it not best to use a decent top? Learning about the tonewood cant start too early surely?

Skills can also be learned by practicing on off cuts which can really help...and then there is the issue of why are you building a guitar ? For me it (probably like many) I just wanted to build 1 - just give it a go, and had the opportunity to to be mentored by a pro through the process, so wanted to build something deliberately different from teh EIR/HOg Sitka combinations that I already owned several of...

There is alos a cdertain romance attached to this... which tends to make us blind to the logical practicalities... that first time you handle and view exotic zoot, you are taken in by its seductive qualities... 'buy me now.... I will be CITIES 3 before you know it... look at my figure...go on, your wife wont know how much I cost, I am just a small piece of wood...'' etc

At what # build does your side and back sets start talking to you?

Its all those glue fumes, and ebony dust