Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi Folks,
I've been asked specifically for a matte finish. Has anyone here tried getting a matte finish with ColorTone lacquer? If so, is it achieved by using fine steel wool instead of buffing? I'd be interested to hear of anyone's experience with this.

If I can't do it this way, does anyone have a better recommendation for what finish to use?

Thanks in anticipation of your responses
Cheers
Ant

Hi Todd,
Many thanks for the reply. I feel confident to use the 2000 grit followed by pummice approach, so if it'll give the finish I need then I'll do that. I always think that the finish is one of the most imortant aspects of building an instrument, and I feel that I would be cheating myself if I sent it to someone else to finish. It's not really a completely rational way of thinking, but then I never promised to be rational

I'm not sure what a flattening agent is, and I'd have to find one that is compatible with the ColorTone, so unless I could be sure of using the right thing I should probably stick with the pummice.

Thanks again for the reply
Cheers
Ant

Ant,
This is my experience creating matte finishes: I've used shellac brushed on, then leveled with 600 grit, then all the way to 2000 grit. then let sit for another week, then used the artificial super fine steel wool with renaissance wax to make it satin. This is not traditional paste wax, but rather used on antique furniture to restore finishes. This stuff works really good. The only draw back to this is that after a while of use, the matte areas will turn shiny from the rubbing of the arm, or any area that get rubbed lightly. So you will see shiny areas after a while of use, and then the guitar looks kind of funky.

So if you want a true matte finish, then you should use either a matte varnish or matte lacquer as the last few final coats. Don't use it for all the coats because a matte finish is usually softer than a gloss finish. So what I did on my last uke, was brush on shellac(about 4 light coats), then let sit for 1 week. Level to 2000 grit. Brush on pratt & lambert flat varnish. 2 coats, 1 coat a day. Then used the artificial steel wool to very lightly level. That finish is a perfect matte finish that will never turn shiny with rubbing. Hope that helps. Good luck!

_________________
Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Todd, yes any time I use a finish I've not tried before I always use it first on scrap of the same woods I'm using for the instrument. That way I don't get any nasty surprises about how to do it or whether it looks the way I expect. Thanks for the advice on long curing! In my experience it's really worth the wait, but it's too tempting to get to the next phase early.

Tracy, I'm interested that you used Pratt and Lambert varnish. It seems to me that there are two (at least) different issues when chosing a finish, one is whether it's compatible with the grain filler, base coats, etc and the other is whether it's suitable for musical instruments and particularly for guitars. Here in the UK I generally find that anything but a water-based finish has to be bought from a supplier in the UK because of shipping restrictions, so it's a matter of finding a suitable finish that I can get. I'm curious how you figured out that the Pratt and Lambert finish is suitable?

I prefer to avoid nitrocellulose, not because I don't like it - I do, but because I'm not really set up for spraying it. I can find matte finish nitrocellulose lacquer from instrument makers supplies, which presumably have some record of being suitable, but I'm having difficulty finding a suitable true matte finish that is either water based or hand applied.

I see what you mean, though about the risk of a rubbed matte fiinish becoming gloss as it wears. I don't really want that to happen.

Cheers
Ant

Almost any after finish satin or matt finish will end up polishing out in contact places over time over time due to the burnish affect that contact will create. when we alter a finish that is normally shiny to have a matt finish by creating diffusion scratches in the outer surface. Every where contact is made the finish sees wear. This wear will slowly erode the diffusion scratches and burnish the surface making it shinny The longest lasting Matt finish have diffusion partials in the finish as part of the solids that scatter the light as it is reflected from the surface regardless of how polished the outer surface is.

All that said I think the most visually appealing matt finishes are the hand rubbed treatments by far. But they do wear

Interesting analysis - so I guess, from what you're saying, that there's no real inherent advantage to finding a true matte finish lacquer over a rubbed finish on a gloss lacquer, and arguably the latter looks better.

I know that Martin put fewer coats on their matte finishes - I wonder if there's any advantage to that or if it's just to keep cost down...

Cheers
Ant