Official Luthiers Forum!

For all those that have day jobs and don't have the pleasure of building for a living. Ever have days where you intentionally stay out of the shop at night because, based on how the days gone, you'll probably end up with a chisel through the sound board or your finger, or a something randomly breaking, or...

Anyone not heed the warning signals in your head and have something happen, then you end up saying "I knew I shouldn't have come down here tonight."

For me it's just the opposite...I find immersion in the work calming. It helps me to forget problems and issues of the moment and usually enables me to approach them more rationally later. Nonetheless, your point is well taken...better safe than sorry.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Me too, but if I'm really tired I'll stay out of the shop.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Dudes gotta know how to watch for and read the signs.

Many of the indigenous peoples on this planet have this thing were the day is just canceled. Usually its just an individual that cancels thier day and does nothing but on rare occasion the entire tribe does. Is most common in the nomadic Tibetan peoples.

Me remember the day me didn't pay attention to the signs and go back to bed....instead I went into the shop, kicked on the table saw and offered up my left thumb tip. Hard way to learn to listen to the consciousness within. Just another one of lifes "oh wells"

blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Same as Woody...! Easy to make mistakes and not as much in the moment......accidents can happen..!!!

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

"I just sharpened this chisel, so I better look out for that fi...."

"You just got that finger fixed up, so don't hit it with the hamm......"

Happens more times than I like to recall.

When my instincts tell me something's going to happen, it usually does. Hard part is hearing it.

There are times when I too find it relaxing to go out to the shop when I'm tired. But I don't do any real work, maybe just clean up, work on a plan for a jig, safe stuff that doesn't involve good wood, sharp objects or machines.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

When I'm having 'one of those days', I may still go down to my shop, but choose my tasks differently.
Cleaning up, sharpening tools, and the like tend to be pretty simple and also 'calming' for me.
So the day isn't completely lost even if the current project hasn't seen any progress.

Working when tired can be dangerous. I built a boat (full-time job during the summer 'holidays') , and one of my 'rules' was that if I went back out to the shop after supper, I didn't use any power tools that could cut. It worked for me.

Cheers
John

For me, it's wakeing up in the morning before going in the shop. I won't even try to do something before i'm good and alert to start the day. That way i feel i have a better chance to do quality work. I'd rather do nothing than mess up something i've spent hours at building.

Zach - so you had a bad day at work? Sorry to hear that and I know how it feels! Good advice to stay out of the shop, when your head is not into it.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

It works both ways- sometimes the shop can provide the meditative concentration that lifts you out of whatever was going on. But there have been instances for me personally where I was in the shop and not able to develop the right concentration or attention, and have had to shut down and walk away when I noticed myself approaching a saw incorrectly, or instances of similar potential for disaster.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

There are certainly things I won't do after 6-7 hrs in the shop. No sunbursts on mandolins, dovetails, binding, routing, etc. I mostly sit and review what I've done, make mental notes, plan the next day's work, and listen to the radio. I'm mostly a morning person, so I try to do the "heavy" work before 2, and wind down from there. the most important part for me is to objectively say to myself when faced with a major task, "Am I up for this or should I wait till morning?"

Bob Stocksdale was considered by many to be the greatest woodturner of the 20th century. He worked well into his 80's. A friend of mine who interviewed him asked him the secret of his longevity as a woodworker. He wiggled his 10 fingers and said, "I quit work at 3."

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Frame of mind is very important. People differ in this. Some need to be in the right frame of mind and some can do something to get themselves into the right frame of mind. I simply have to be or it isn't happening for me. I've learned and it is easy to say on these forums that a person shouldn't but actually learning not to is an entirely different thing. I measure myself by my work there is something inside me that tells me my worth by what i produce. If i had a bad day at work I'm already in a poor state of mind, then to attempt something grand is out of the question. Chances are it will not turn out grand at all. Then I will have yet another thing to measure my poor self worth by.

The trick is to gain momentum with these things. When your feeling good do something good even it it is a 5 or 10 minute job. That gives you the feel good moment to do more. I think that is one of the nice things about guitar building thus far that i've learned. There are things you can do that can sit till you can do something else.

There are times when my mood can be shifted and sometimes a song can change things around. I won't be sharing my power song though.... Something I learned from ali mc beal (not sure of the spelling)

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

As an amateur, I find that shop time does calm me from a bad day at the office, but I'm not sure that this would be the case if I had to make a living with lutherie in the current climate. I fully agree with Woody and the others who have mentioned making mistakes when tired. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a blood spill off of a lutz top? Or the end of your left index finger stapled back on?

If I'm too tired to concentrate on power tools or other sharp objects I head for the recliner, a glass of good double-bock and the History channel.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

I don't know if anyone else has had the experience of waking up in the AM and the first thought being that what you did in your shop late the previous night did not go well. Something that seems simple , like gluing in linings, can go south easily if you are tired and "forcing" yourself.
With age I have learned that bright lights and mental activity late at night will disturb my sleep, but sometimes I still find myself poking around.....

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

I do my work in my dreams!!! I often dream about the things i want to do before i do them. It's good rehearsal but can be stressful as anything that can go wrong usually does in my dreams. I wake up stressed and for a moment or two unable to sort out reality... It is far better then when I used to be so stressed about things that i couldn't sleep much at all. Not to mention being woken up with stress related pains i'd rather not talk about....

It seems the older i get the more relaxed i become. I'd already like to be there though if you know what i mean...

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

I work 7 days a week in the shop.
some of those days are just looking at the great woods & listening to music and being thankful for it all.
Rediscovering why I started doing this in the first place!
And finding sets & tools I forgot i had !
My shop is heaven on earth for me.
No violence,crime,T.V.or politicians!!!!!!!!!
Plus I have 3 great 4 legged friends that enjoy the peace also.

Plus some vino once & awhile.
Mike

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Mike Collins

Well, i know when its too late to listen to your instinct!

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"Everyone wants to BE something, but nobody wants to BECOME something" - William Cumpiano

Wow, with just a bit of imagination, the drops form a reasonable outline of the north American continent, although Cuba is a bit north.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

When to stay out of the shop?

Stay out of the shop?

You gotta be kidding...
You mean your left ankle ain't chained to the table saw,
You mean you don't sleep on a role out cot in the corner?

Stay out of the shop?

Ya right.


blessings
the
Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I find working in the shop great when I'm really stressed with work and other issues. It soothes my nerves I don't recommend working there though when physically tired. That can be dangerous.

He wiggled his 10 fingers and said, "I quit work at 3."

<bg> Good one... I need to remember that one if I still have 10 fingers at the age of 80. Hell, if I reach 80 I'll wiggle whatever fingers I have anyhow...

My "rule" has always been "no power tools before noon". I could probably move that time to 3pm, now. Some of us are morning people, some are night people. I closed the shop at a little past 2am yesterday, and just short of 2am just now. Mornings(any time between 10am and 2 pm is "morning") is when you'll find me perusing the internet, aggravating some, helping others, placing wood/parts orders and conversing with clients.

Point being, don't fight your body clock, and work when your body tells you to work. Some are morning men, some are night people. If I quit work at 3pm, I'd starve, and if the Bob Stocksdale had worked until 2am, he'd have been in a sleep deprived stupor! When things don't seem like they will work, don't fight 'em. If I walk into the shop after supper and I feel clumsy, I'll change my plan if it involved power tools, and instead do some fine hand work, or clean up/sweep up, or I may grab an instrument and play it until my senses tell me it's okay to work.

Having a full-time, other life...one in which I'm on call and frequently called away at all times of day and night; I find it difficult lately to get into the shop as much as I want. I have; however, found that I can pick out the days when I shouldn't be doing any fine work. Instead I clean up the perpetual mess, gripe about how I'm not getting anything done and talk to my dogs. Might take me forever to get a guitar finished, but at least I'll have all my fingers and be happy with the end product.

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Jamie M