Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi everyone and Happy New year!

One of my customers has requested Stainless Steel (jumbo to boot!) to be installed on his neck. I have not worked with SS before. I own several guitars with them, but have never had to dress them. So my questions are:

1) will I have trouble using my standard cutters? (will it ruin them?)
2) After cutting off the overhang frets ends, I tapper the ends in about 20% or so. Will SS ruin my StewMac Fret filer (wood block with file on it?) or Do I need to use a throw away file for working on stainless?
3) I have the standared 3:1 fret crowning files as well as a normal set of 3 from an online supplier. Will the SS ruin those files?
4) Should I refuse to do any more SS fret work?

I do about 10 necks a month right now. This is the only time I have been asked for SS. I didn't think about all the issues when I said yes. I have already order the frets and they will be here anyday.

Help!

_________________
Joe

Stainless is hard stuff. It's best to use diamond or abrasives rather than steel files to work with it. Ideally, you should try to get your setup to where you barely need to touch the frets as that's probably easier than doing much leveling on stainless.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

What Bob says about getting it right to minimize leveling and crowning. That's been my main effort and I believe I finally have it...much has to to with getting the FB perfectly flat prior to installing frets. I followed Mario's advice on proper fret installation and it helped immensely.

I've done 3 FBs so far and I may never do another standard fretwire! I love it that much.

Forget about using your standard end cutters. I've been using thin cutoff wheels on a Dremel so far...but I'm open to something better.

I use the same files for filing the ends even with the FB and setting the angle on the fret ends. So far it hasn't damaged the file. Once installed, they polish up beautifully and stay that way. I'm sold on them...anybody wanna buy 2 lbs of standard fretwire?

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I took a guitar making class at my local junior college. I loaned my new fretwire end cutters (standard LMI ones) to a student who returned them completely trashed. Big chunks were missing from the cutting edge. He was using stainless fretwire. I never even got to use them before they were trashed. Stainless has no appeal to me anymore.

At ASIA this spring the question came up during a refret demo. The guy doing the lecture (can't remember his name) said he has a $100 upcharge to do stainless frets. I'm not sure if this reflected his actual time and material cost (ruined end nippers and files) or just to discourage his customers, or both.

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

At ASIA this spring the question came up during a refret demo. The guy doing the lecture (can't remember his name) said he has a $100 upcharge to do stainless frets. I'm not sure if this reflected his actual time and material cost (ruined end nippers and files) or just to discourage his customers, or both.

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Joe,

JJ started a thread late last summer about stainless frets. No more advice on working with them than you've already gotten from he and Bob, but worth reading.

Steve

I have done at least five guitars with stainless frets and will not go back to the standard fretwire unless it is specifically requested. I use a diamond "file" to crown and a standard steel file in a bevel jig to dress the ends without any problems.

I also use the same flush cutting pliers that I used on standard frets without any problems (just requires a little more pressure). I must say that I bought the best quality flush cutting pliers at the local hardware store and ground them flat.

The only problem that I encountered was keeping the ends down. Even with the wire pre radiused smaller than the fretboard, (and a plenty deep and not too wide slot) I would occasionally have a dfficult fret end not wanting to stay down when hammering. This problem was solved by pressing the frets in.

So, do five fret boards give an accurate assesment of wear and tear on tools?, probably not, but IMHO since the SS is harder, there must be more wear on the tools, just cannot notice any yet. I just like the results and longer life of the stainless steel frets.

Chuck

_________________
_________________

I can certainly understand the upcharge...they cost more and it can be a lot more work unless you figure out a repeatable and reliable method through experience. I've decided to use SS as standard because it is superior IMO. Players that I know personally have seen the difference and say that they show no wear and are always optimally smooth and polished. That's all I had to hear!!!

As far as keeping the fret ends down, I hammer mine in while the FB is off the neck. I use Fish Glue in the slots before pounding them in. I then clamp the entire board for 24 hours with frets installed and a tight fitting radiused caul while the glue cures out ... so far I have not had any loose frets. I wish I could comment on fret leveling and crowning files but I haven't had to level them in a year since I learned to prep the boards properly. As stated earlier, my only need right now is a tool that can cut the wire as easily as the traditional wire.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ, would you mind sharing more about how you prep the board, or is it available in an article somewhere?

This is another pearl of wisdom from our friend, Mario. Real simple...get it stable, straight and flat with no preferential curl. If the board is dead flat and uniform, and the frets are all seated home similarly, then fret height of all 21 must be the same. I only use wood that's been in my shop for a year and stuff that has been milled to final thickness for a month or so. Getting it flat before radiusing requires a bit of attention on the thickness sander. I don't move on to the slotting until I know everything is just right. If after slotting the board wants to go concave, I clamp it in the center with 2 small spacers at the ends in order to whip it back into shape. Same thing after fretting. I want that board tension free and relaxed when I glue it to the neck. Since I've taken such time in the early stages, the latter stages have rewarded me with trouble-free fretting.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I was thinking these compound action carbide nippers from McMaster would do the job on SS frets if one wished to blow $250 on them , but their cutting capacity is listed as .08", which would actually be some pretty thin fretwire wouldn't it? Seems like the dremel cutoff wheel is a good way to go.



Peace,
Sanaka

_________________
...imagine there were no hypothetical situations...

If I may? 5 words to solve the SS fret cutting issue.

"Walter" Zip disc + angle grinder

http://www.aaabrasives.com/products/wal ... e_grinders

Crazy-narrow kerf, wicked fast and clean cut. Less waste than nippers, no long term hand/wrist/carpal tunnel injuries, discs last forever.... Add a cheap 10,000 RPM grinder, and make yourself a chop saw, or just clamp down the grinder, and slice the frets to length after marking with a Sharpie. Wear leather gloves the first few times, to be safe, or live on the edge and free hand it

Thank me later....

Oh, and everything JJ said.

Dang Mario! Lancelot discs, cutoff wheels, next you'll be showing us how to cut soundholes with a grinder and a 4 1/2" holesaw

Peace,
Sanaka

_________________
...imagine there were no hypothetical situations...

Thanks. Great tip. But $100 for 25 wheels that last forever put a frown on my face. Someone needs to sell these for $10 each or something since they last so long. Got any for sale?

Ed

Thanks Mario...just what I needed.

Sounds like we have the making of a group buy on narrow kerfed 4.5" discs. Let me know who wants one. If we can get a decent number, I'll order them and ship them out. Cost will be determined on the basis of the number of participants who sign up.

Here's the list so far:

1) JJ

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

NEVERMIND on the group buy!

Go here to purchase them individually: http://www.heavydutystore.com/walter-zip-wheel-thin-cut-off-wheels-11-t-042-pr-63806.html

About $3.00 each

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com