Official Luthiers Forum!

I just got my red in from LMI and would like to ask a few questions about it.

The grain is about 4.5 to 6 lines per inch in most areas ( a very few areas have 14/inch mostly in the middle) what is your thoughts about this?

I only paid about 70 bucks for it so I'm not trying to say that LMI gave me some bad wood I'm just wanting to know what the experts think about this. I know stiffness/density/thickness also play a large role in sound but what are your thoughts about lines/inch?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Really nice tight grained Adi is c. 200-300$.

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Build log

No expert here, but as long as it has a good tap tone with a bit of sustain and is stiff,the grains per inch are only cosmetic. Matter of fact people have been known to select tops blindfolded in order not to be swayed by the grains per inch.Sounds OK to me. Good luck.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I don't have enough hands on experience with red spruce but I have read a couple of articles (Dana Bourgois was one I believe) where the builders feeling was that wider grain had a more resonant and better tap tone than tighter grain. They felt that people didn't use it as much for aesthetic reasons only. Food for thought.

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Remember what Yoda taught us...
"size don't matter"

Nor does grain count...unless you buy into the BS of the wood sellers.

and ya you gonna get a few on here who say that the higher the grain the stiffer the wood...so what?

If the wood aint stiff enough ...don't use it or go thicker...and if its real stiff well gee... you can go thinner.

Some dude worked out what he called the ideal grain count being between 21 and 25 ...based on the weight of too much grain and lack of stifness from two little grain, ya right and again ...so what. Now in NA we follow the Tool Time philosoph of "too much is just enought"... so you could always send it back.

Me personaly believe that wide grain aids in the bass responce. The Virzi Tone Plate Producer installed in the high end Lloyd Loar F5 mandos were of very wide grain spruce...4 to 5 per inch....some even less.

Red spruce...nice wood. Just remember to talks to it... wood, she can't think...you gotts ta tell her what she gonna sound like. Now if thats too Wooie Voo Dooie for you, well then you could always buy a Tone Right.

Oh and just in passing...a 2 x 8 x 8 of spruce at your local building center is less than $5 and you gonna get up to 8 flat tops out of it. Might have to search through the whole lift to find a nice one or two. But they are cheap like borstch. Cedar will be about $15.

To me a high grain count means you can charge more to the client and keep the BS alive while lining your pocket and stimulating the economy...but me, I'd rather educate than play the ripp off game.


Blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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That looks very typical of what I would call a AA grade adi top .... and its priced accordingly. better cosmetically AAA grade tops are almost twice as much, and master grade more again.

as many have noted .. its all cosmetic is the quarter is good, and the stiffness is there. Some folks dont care - others are willing to pay for better

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Unfortunately many customers don't. The top models of the major companies all have cosmetically upgraded materials, and many consumers select with their eyes as much as their ears.....

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Exactly Jon .. and thats why when we are trying to sell handmade guitars for top dollar, usually more than the top models of the big manufacturers, we try to use cosmetically nicer woods .. otherwise the perceived value isnt there for the average buyer. Its alsio ahrd to even justify the upcharge by some maunfacturers for stuff .... indian rosewood is how much more than mahogany ??? Or how about adi or mad rw/cocobolo ... check out Martin or R Taylor and see what they ask (and get) for those upgrades.

In an inlay seminar transcript I read that Harry Fleishman told people a D45 is really just a D28 with 2 lbs of shell on it, right .... but look how much more it is. Cosmetics are everything in marketing .... and pricing of guitar sets/tops.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

You've mentioned this before Tony. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand you can ask why should there be such an upgrade and on the other hand it does allow the individual builder to be more competitive with the factories....

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I agree with all the comments. Trying to work on a budget, I really am shooting for quality of build and great sound. If it doesn't sell because of the cosmetic grain lines, I'll just keep it!! (I hope my wife doesn't read this

Then again, If I had years of experience I would upgrade the wood (cosmetically) for sure!

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Yes it sure does make us able to be competitive .. I love it when they raise their prices .. makes some of us look downright affordable.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"