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ok first things first. I own a breedlove ad-sm25. it has a pinless bridge. trying to do a set up on this thing is a PITA. the only way to get the saddle out is to remove the strings which cause the windings to get weak and thus break after about two saddle removals does anyone have any tricks to remedy this?

and next. I have been practicing setting up a couple other guitars. one being an odessa (made by dixon) and the other is a seagull. the problem is i keep running out of saddle room (mainly on the high E) and the break of the string coming out of the bridge and across the saddle is well... their is hardly any, resulting in loss of tone and eventually buzzing. Im sure they probably both need a neck reset. thanks in advance for the advice

Sounds to me that you are looking at set up only in terms of adjusting the saddle height. There is far more to it than that.

The first thing to check is the neck plane to bridge height relationship. a precision straight edge laid across the frets on centerline of the guitar extended over the bridge should show between zero and .08" ideally of clearance above the bridge at the center of saddle slot. Less than Zero clearance the neck angle is too low and is in need of a neck reset. More than 1/8” the same is true.

Also before ever lowering the saddle height always check the existing bottom of string height at the first and twelfth frets. This should be in the range of .021-.023 E to .011-.013 e at the first fret and .088-.090 E to .068-.070 e at the twelfth fret. Knowing this is important because the string clearance is affected by both the nut slot depth and the saddle height.

If you adjust based only on adjusting the saddle height alone then you affect the string clearance disproportionally from one end. You may be in need of a new nut or at least filling the nut slots and re-slotting them to achieve a good string clearance relationship across the fretboard.

I am guessing that these guitars have had the action lowered in the past by only adjust the saddle height and you are now at a point where there is no more available height to adjust. Without knowing far more details about their current set-up. This would be my guess

ok the seagull im pretty sure has never had a set up done.the measurements are as followed:
1st fret E= .035 e=.027
12th fret E=.105 e=.114

I layed a straight edge across the fretboard and across the middle of th bridge and the gap at the last fret is 2.5/64ths

First I think by what you said you measured that you miss understood what the straight edge should be doing. the straight edge should lay on top of all the frets and extend over the bridge. the bottom edge of the straight edge should clear the bridge between zero and .08" at the saddle slot. This relation ship is equal to what the fret height would be if the frets extend all the way to the saddle. if the plane is less than flush with the top of the bridge the neck angle is to shallow and a good set-up will never be achived untill the neck has been reset. If too far above the the saddle will end up being too tall and be to weak, add too much rotational force on the saddle slot.

in regards to the string heights unless the strings are over .058-.03 gauge the measured heights are very high at the first fret and moderatly high at the 12th. this tells me that the set-up person at Segull did a poor job.

once you double check the neck to bridge relationship and if the straight edge clears the bridge by zero to .08" my next step would be to slot the nut till the stings clear the first fret by .027 E to .017 e. then check what you have at the 12th.

the fact that the ratio between the hight at the first fret above desired is greater than the ratio at the 12th I cant help but think tthat the saddle has been lowerd to make the this setup playable. Now this could have been don at Segull or by a music store tech prior to selling the guitar. there is a lot of that that goes on

I did understand what you meant about the straight edge. i just thought i would give you the measurements anyway.
I also pretty much knew that it would need a neck reset when i was working the saddle. I guess i just needed confirmation. I wont do it on his guitar but I might try on the odessa just for practice. as for my breedlove, that's my performance guitar and cant afford to be without it for upcoming shows.

can you link me something showing me generally how to remove a neck?

I know these are rookie questions and hate to bother with them, but i do appreciate the feedback thanks

on the Breedlove take it to a Breedlove authorized luthier if in need of neck work. too risky for a an inexperienced repair. The Odessa I am not sure of their neck joint and adhesive. Basically there are several different neck joint styles but the two most common in factory built are glued in Mortise and Tenon and Dovetail joint. most likely the joint will be a Dovetail. this is not a neck removal for the faint of heart or insufficiently equipped or first time repairman.

Now most mid to lower end guitar factories use epoxy to glue in the necks. This is difficult but not impossible to soften with steam. They tend to look at these guitars as throw aways. If the neck is bad it is cheaper to replace the guitar than to do the reset so they use a glue that easy to apply, quick to set without regard to ease of reparability.

To remove a dovetail joint you will need a good set of seam knifes, some sources of pressurized steam with a hose and needle for injecting the steam into the joint to soften the glue. You first separate the fretboard extension form the top using heat and seam knifes. Pull the 15th or 13th fret9depending on what fret is at the joint. Drill a hole into the fret channel into the dove tail pocket and inject steam into the pocket to soften the glue. Keep dry towels in the body to absorb excess moisture that will leak into the body. Once the glue softens the neck removal fixture is used to jack the neck upward in the pocket till the dove tail is free. Stewmac sells a neck removal fixture or you can make your own based on the same design.

I have to tell you that the odds of this being a good outcome your first time with out hands on guidance is not high. This is one repair that can cause serious damage to the guitar if things go wrong. That said the principal is pretty straight forward. After you unsecure the fretboard extension from the body you soften the glue and push the compound dovetail tenon up to free it from the matching compound dovetail pocket. The repair or adjustment of the Dovetail tenon and pocket is then done to change the angle as needed just as it is it is done for a new neck. Being that this is a case where material will likely need added at the lower portion of the dove tail pocket shins will be added then the tenon refitted to the pocket as needed. Here again this is not a simple task for an inexperienced luthier. A good understanding on how the dovetail tenon and pock fits and works together is needed to do this well. Good experience with the use of a sharp chisel is imperative. As you will be needing to remove specific amounts of material in specific areas to properly fit the mortise and pocket together. A very small change at the mortise and pock can make a significant change at the peghead end of the neck and in the left to right axis of the neck centerline to body centerline relationship.

If you still think you are up to the challenge then there are many good books and publications you can use for assistance. This website has a photo breakdown of the process. But assumes you have a good understanding on how a compound dove tail works.

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