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I have been thinking about setting up a buffer for final polishing nitro. I hesitate because of the mess it creates plus the chance of burning thru a corner or the buffer throwing the guitar across the shop!
Up til now I have been hand polishing by wet sanding to 2000 followed by auto rubbing compound and polishing compound. My results have been what I would call about 80% there. My question is, could I get a mirror finsh if I use the micro mesh paper to 12000 followed by polishing compound, or is now the time to set up a buffer and learn how to use it?

Thanks
Chuck

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An intermediate approach is to use a random orbit sander with a buffing bonnet. It's a little quicker than hand buffing and less likely to throw a guitar across the room. You can still burn through if your not carefull.

Thanks Clay, I have been thinking about trying an ROS. How fine do you sand before buffing with ROS?

Chuck

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After i sand flat with 600.I wet sand up to 1500 then buff with Menzerna.After that, you can shave while playing your guitar.Do you wait a couple weeks before you sand flat? If not , you should.

That depends on what you are using as a buffing/polishing compound. I use the Menzerna 2L paste to start after sanding with 800. I use the Surbuf pads on the ROS from Lee Valley. Overall, I am pleased with the results since I don't want to committ to a buffer at this point.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=51091&cat=1,190,43034&ap=1

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Hey guys, not to highjack, but a quick question. I use an automotive buffer I bought at Advance Auto. What do you use or recommend to clean the bonnetts? I have tried rinsing or handwashing them in hot, soapy water, but there's too much compound in them and I can't get them clean, so I usually end up tossing them, since once the compound dries on them they'd most likely scratch up or gouge the finish. I've been buying the buffing bonnetts cheap at the local Big Lots, but if there's a way to clean and use them again, I'd love to. I use StewMac buffing compounds.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Mark...I let the laquer cure for three weeks before I wet sand level thru 2000. Are you buffing by hand with Menzerna?

Thanks Dave, thanks for the link...this looks like the direction I will be going...Can you clean/reuse the pads?

Mike, I had the same problem with bonnets on a ROS buffer, I just replaced them. But I did not get the results I was looking for, that was using automotive rubbing and finish gaze compound...in fact for me I had equal results rubbing out by hand. I am hoping that Menzerna applied with a ROS will make a difference...Then there is cleaning the pads or Bonnets?

Chuck

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Cleaning these pads is a bit of work. I soak them overnight in soapy water then rub clean. The coarser grits do tend to clog up the pad. I have been able to clean them 3-5 times before they start to come apart. You definitely won't get them clean enough to use one pad on more than one grit.

I should note I have used this method on KTM9 and shellac, not nitro.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Thanks guys!

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Mario used to buff by chucking a bonnett in his drill press. You might give it a try if you have a drill press.

I have done quick buffing at shows using a 8 inch buff on a bolt chucked in a cordless drill on high speed... menzerna Glans Wach.. works well.

if hand polishing, i recommend Meguiars number 2, followed by number 7 or 17. Even after machine buffing, I get a higher shine from 7 or 17 by hand - my final step in the process.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thanks everybody for responding, lots of good info here!

Chuck

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[quote="ChuckB"]Mark...I let the laquer cure for three weeks before I wet sand level thru 2000. Are you buffing by hand with Menzerna?


Chuck, I use a variable speed drill with an 8" with the menzerna.An keep the guitar clamped with foam rubber to avoid it from flying anywhere.

Thanks Mark, seems like using a variable speed drill with an 8" wheel is popular, may have to give that a try.

Chuck

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I use a foam automotive buffing pad chucked in my drill press. I use Autoglym #2 and #3 polish. Final sand is P1200 - P1500. Depends on what I've got at hand. Buffing takes about 1/2 hour for the entire guitar. Finish comes out like glass. I now pad the column and table on my drill press as it's easy to give them a bit of a bump and ding the top.

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Allen R. McFarlen
Barron River Guitars & Ukuleles
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Cairns, Australia

So what size drill press is that Allen? Looks like a 17" floor model.

I'm liking the look of that buffing method and I'd like to try it. I have a 6" lambs wool buff (two actually) that I can chuck in the drill press, but I only have a 12" bench top model.

I'm wondering if I'll be hitting the post much or if I'll have room to do the sides properly. Any other pictures you can show of this method besides this one? I guess specifically the waist and maybe a cutaway.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

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Without getting too far off the topic, I was once told by a wise old coot and must say I agree with him that with the grain final buffing is essential to getting the spectacularly clear wet look. I use to think my buff-outs were good but after hearing this I started paying close attention to the finial session with the grain. To my eyes It has brought the luster and depth of high gloss finish up an entire other notch.

This is where I think it hard to beat canton wheels on an arbor.

I sure wish I had the room for a buffing wheel and arbor but that's just not possible for me in my small little space.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I'm considering, though I haven't gotten to this point yet, using my automotive buffer. A real buffer used to buff out catalyzed polyester clear coats, not the one they sell in the auto aisle at Wal-Mart. It can be set up with various foam pads and just make sure you always buff off the edges, not into. I was thinking of mounting it up into my binding jig carriage. Maybe outfitting it with a screw down clamp in the soundhole just as extra precaution from it flying away.

Just another option I thought I'd mention.

Darrin

I use the hand polish method. All the way to the 12000 micro mesh. Then I use Bounty paper towels. approx 20000 grit. then use well crumpled Brown paper bag material. approx 30000 grit. I don't have problems with something hitting the floor. BEEN THERE DONE THAT. Have had good results since the change.
I also allow 10 days minimum per coat of lacquer before considering polishing out.

and BTW if you want to add power just fold the paper up and use your palm or ROS sander with 150 grit and press the paper between them. makes for fine polishing. I also use this with Johnsons paste wax and a paper towel on my table saw to polish the table and WOOD just glides over it

just my .02cents.

MK

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

I have been using stewmac foam buffing pad on a drill press with good result. The problem with the foam pad is they are not aggressive at all so you want to sand to a fine grit before polishing. I am thinking about just getting a few wheels and threaded rod so I can chuck them to the drill press and use solid compound bars. I have seen buffing arbors here but their RPM is way too high for lacquer (the lowest they go is 1500 rpm).

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I used to get decent results, or so I thought, with hand polishing my lacquer finishes, then using lamb's wool buffs and hand glazing. It sure was a lot of work, though.



My buffer is mounted on a board which I clamp to a bench when I use it, and it can be stored on a shelf or hung on the wall otherwise. For me, this is much more effient than the manual procedure, and I think my finishes have gotten better too. I’m sure I could have improved my technique with my previous method and gotten equally or even better results with more practice and diligence, but for me this simple buffer has been a blessing. Finishing is a real time sink, and the less time I spend on this particular step, the better.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

No other pictures at the moment Rod, and I'm about to head off on holidays tomorrow for 5 weeks, so don't expect any soon.

The drill press is a bench model. Doing the waist isn't too difficult, but a tight cutaway is a no-go. Those I still have to do by hand. But being such a small area, they don't take that much time.

I'm not a fan of wool pads. They tend to get a build up on the fibers that harden up and scratch a finish. They are also very difficult to get truly clean. You can get foam pads in different densities and "Grain" for lack of a better term. They are designed for everything from removing paint off of a tractor to putting the highest gloss onto a black Jaguar. Autoglym makes a fine selection of them, and I know that you can get them in Canada, as that was all I used for the last 10 years that I was there. They do make different diameters of pad, and their smallest ones may do the waist and cutaway better. I don't have one at home, so haven't tried.

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Allen R. McFarlen
Barron River Guitars & Ukuleles
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Cairns, Australia