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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:34 am 
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Cocobolo
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Location: Plainfield, IL (chicago)
I finished an A-style mandolin for my dad this past Christmas. He loves it, but it way to small for his hands. He wants to build a Mandolin that is larger. Maybe 16-18" scale? Has anyone ever built somethink along these lines? Did you have troubles finding strings? What tuning did you have to use to get it to sound right? Any thoughts or help?

Thanks,
Joe

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:50 am 
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That scale length range is in mandola territory, so a mandola (which is tuned CGDA, a fifth below a mandolin), may be the way to go. You could also make an instrument of that length for other tunings, higher or lower or tuned in 4ths rather than 5ths or whatever - you just need to do some figuring with string gauges and tensions. I've designed an instrument that I call an "alto guitar" or "mando guitar" that has a scale length just over 18" and is tuned GCEA, like the top 4 strings of a guitar capoed at the 5th fret (it has double courses, tuned in unisons, like a mando). I'm planning to make a new one with 5 courses, to be tuned either EADGB (like the bottom 5 strings of a guitar, but an octave higher) or EADF#B, which would be like the top 5 strings of a guitar capoed at the 7th fret. If you look at the top 4 strings of that last tuning (ADF#B), you can see that it's the same as my original alto guitar tuning, but a whole step higher. I will use the same scale length, but lighten up the string gauges of those four courses to achieve about the same string tensions - actually, I'm going to aim for slightly lower string tensions, because the original alto guitar feels a little stiff to play (it's fine, really - it doesn't feel as stiff as a mandolin, but I want to make an instrument that feels a little looser and easier to play). Then I'll figure out what to use on the new bottom course.

If you develop your concept around an existing instrument with a similar scale length and tuning to what you're dreaming up, such as a mandola, or, in my case, a guitar capoed at the 5th fret, it gives you a starting place for figuring out string gauges and tensions. For the alto guitar, I just conceptually took a 24.9" scale length guitar and put my nut at the 5th fret. That's how I derived my scale length and knew, without having to do a lot of calculation, that standard guitar strings tuned at GCEA would be at a good tension. I used my 24.9" template to cut my fret slots.

Another way of looking at this is to observe all the different places on a guitar that you can play a given note. In each different place, you're playing a different string at a different fret - i.e. a different "scale length" and different string gauge - but the tension is always roughly the same. This illustrates how widely you can vary the scale length for any given note (or set of notes, i.e. a tuning for a whole instrument) by varying the string gauge(s). It also gives you a lot of possible string gauges and scale lengths to refer to for a wide range of notes, if you want to design an instrument with tensions similar to a guitar.

If there's anything I'm not making clear, please let me know.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:14 am 
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Hi Joe,
You are describing a mandola, they usually have scale lengths in that neighborhood. In the mando family of instruments, the mandola is to the mandolin what the viola is to the violin, and is normally tuned a fifth below it; C-G-D-A. you should have no difficulty finding strings for such am instument. I know Siminoff sells plans for a H5, which is the mandola equivalent to the F5. I’m not sure if anyone sells plans for an A-style mandola, anyways it should not be difficult to adapt the H5 plans (just omit the scroll and points).

<edit> I typed this up, went to lunch, and hit the submit button before reading Todd's post...

A couple of more thoughts: If it’s a mandolin he really wants, why don’t you just make one with a wider neck? A couple of things, though… You say the mandolin is too small for his hands. Does he have large hands, or is it just that he is new to the instrument and that the neck seems small to him? The instrument’s tuning, the chords and fingerings are closely related. The wider the neck, the more difficult some of the stretches will become (in standard tuning, anyways) for normal sized hands. So even it seems easier to fret, it may actually be harder to fret cleanly, play fast runs etc on a wider fingerboard. Not that they are the same, but as skinny as a violin neck is, it seems to work fine even for guys with pretty big paws.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:04 am 
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Cocobolo
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Here is a picture of the A Mandolin...actually its called a "country mandolin" but its the A size. Anyway, no he does not have huge hands but at 74+ years of age, his hands don't work quite like they used to. So he is having troubles getting his hands between the frets up the neck past the first position or so. Its really more of love or passion at this point for me to help him build instruments that are fun for him to play.

Image

He started building this mandolin back in 1980 and never finished it. I recieved it over the summer and completed the fretboard, headstock overlays, drilling for tuners etc and the finish. I surpised him at christmas.

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:05 am 
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Thanks for all the comments. Yes, I think a Mandola is just what he needs. I will look to see what blue prints, plans or an actually instrument I can borrow to figure out what I need. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:37 pm 
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Lawrence Smart wrote an article about mandolin family instruments for american lutherie # 56 with lots of information. I am looking at it right now, so here is some info on gibson mandolas.

He has gibson mandola scale lengths at 15 15/16" for A-styles and 16 3/8 for F-style.
I use a 17" scale for mandolas myself.
width at nut- 1 9/32"
width at 12- 1 23/32"
depth of neck at 1st fret- 7/8"
depth of neck at 8th fret- 15/16"
depth of sides- 1 25/32"
width of lower bout- 11 1/4" A-style, 11 3/8 F-style
length of body- 14 1/4" A-style, 15 3/8" F-style with scroll

I came up with a mandola shape by tracing around my A-style mandolin shape with a washer to enlarge the outline, i cleaned up the curves some and had a nice shape pretty fast.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Great info!

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