Official Luthiers Forum!

I remember reading in "The History of the Ovation Guitar" (book) that Carlie Kaman once visited the Martin factory during the '70's, and he apparently thought their building methods were hopelessly old fashioned and not at all sophisticated; "They are putting them together with clothes pins..." (paraphrasing). He was, however, impressed with the speed with which Martin guitars were built. According to the book Martin had 14 "man hours" in each guitar at the time, while Ovation could never build them with less than 18. I have no idea what their numbers are today, I assume they don't build them slower, anyways.

I'm a hobby builder, and I in the 100 hours or so camp (including finishing). I can rush it if I have to, though.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

50-60 a year?!? I'd never want to doubt someone else's experience, but I can hardly see how that's even possible for a one-man shop. I mean, the ability to complete a guitar in a week or so has been proven here but - on a consistent basis? That's over a guitar a week, year 'round!

I realize that batch building and keeping several guitars at different stages in the process greatly increases production, but where is the time for R&D, tool sharpening and tune-up, cleanup, communicating with customers.... or sleeping, for that matter? The guy must work 100-plus hour weeks!

I'd like to spend some time in his shop, for sure.

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

First-time builders or those aspiring to build who are reading this should be aware that they will spend a lot of time building jigs and fixtures along the way, too. In fact, that might take nearly as much time as working on the guitar itself. Once the moulds, jigs, fixtures, etc. are all built, the second guitar made from these jigs will go much more quickly. Also, allow plenty of time to sit and scratch your head (I'm not kidding) and figure out how to correct lots of little mistakes.

Patrick

How long is a piece of string.

It all depends on where it was cut Robert

I have a full-time day job and was able, several years ago, to build a guitar for Father's Day for my father-in-law in two weeks start to finish. Probably had 30-40 hours in it but the finish was no where near what it needed to be. For me I could see putting the soundbox together in a couple of days but it takes me a good 8 hour day to carve my neck/volute/drill, etc. Also, I would put finishing/setup at at least 40 more hours. Hard to tell but I can put a guitar together in a week or two, with my day job and poultry farm and small children, but its another 6 to 8 weeks minimum to get my varnish finish anywhere near suiting me.

There is a guy here locally who builds about 20 guitars and 15 F style mandos per year which blows my mind. There must be more hours in the day a few miles from here.

I have finally realized a clean shop is a faster shop although I don't always keep it as tidy as I should and making batches of bridges, braces, peghead overlays, etc. really helps alot. I still dream of the day I can come home and do it full-time though. I love it so much I just can't tell you.

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"We might not be big but we sure are slow"

Good advice, Patrick. And besides...what's the hurry.

I still do a lot of head scratching but less than I did 5 years ago.

I actually timed this on my recent 12 string. For the body, it was about 20 hours with the biggest portion of that time centered around voicing. Building necks takes me 50 hours from scratch. Since I get 2 necks from the same block, the second build is considerably faster. Prepping wood still takes me a lot of time.

The final work of fitting the neck and prepping the surfaces for finishing is another 20 hours for me. Finishing is a whole other time frame but if I FP, that could add another 20- 30 hours.

And then gluing the bridge and setting up can take me another 20 hours. It seems the more times I do this set up thing, the longer it takes. After building a few, you'll understand why.

I never consider this a race nor an attempt to set any new records...it's more important to do things right the first time...the head scratching part has always helped me to prevent brain farts...but not all of them.

Just have fun!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Banner signature, JJ...

I agree, it's not always obvious the amount of time spent humming and hawwing over different steps, procedures and all that fun stuff...

Good jigs can make a world of difference. As much as I hate building them, they sure can save you a lot of time, plus, the results should be more consistant.

I find the one tool that shaved the most time for me was a drum sander. I paid a pretty penny for mine, but it's worth it's weigh in gold, I tell ya!!!

A fox bender is next... Ugh!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Let's not confuse fast with good. What you are describing sounds like a highly skilled technician who has it down to a mechanical routine, with robotic assistance. For all I know, they may be flawless--in the fashion of a factory-built instrument. Is that what we aspire to here?

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Let's not confuse slow with good. Maybe he spends 10 of those hours tuning his tops.

Kevin Ryan is an extremely fast builder, and he uses less CNC on his guitars than a lot of people here. Last I asked, he was still carving necks by hand. I'm sure he could get under 30 with a basic spec guitar (ie: take out all the fancy stuff that he puts in by default). Al Carruth is sort of scary fast with a chisel when he's in 'business mode', as well

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

No two of my guitars are the same except inside details and body shapes.

I take as much time as needed to get them right !

Even if I have to call the player and say I need more time !

Mike

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Mike Collins

Here is a video clip of a student of mine playing a guitar he built in a private class with me in 8 days. This included the French polish finish.

Rod offered speed as proof of good. I did not offer slow as proof of same. As for someone who builds an acoustic guitar in 30 hours, including finish (but with CNC'd neck blanks) spending 10 hours tuning each top: wanna bet? I'll give you over 5 and I'll take under 5, just to make it fair.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Do I have to count the time I spend on this forum doing 'research'?

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

Robbie,
That was awesome! Thanks for sharing! Bryan is also a customer of mine, and he was blown away that he could actually complete a guitar in 8 days. They were long days, but really you could have finished in 7 days since the first day was only a 1/2 day. I suspect if you had to build a guitar every 8 days, you'd be sick of it in 6 months

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

I'd give you $5 just because I like you, Howard, no need to gamble . I was being facetious; I'm pretty sure there aren't many builders at all that spend ten hours productively tuning a top (I mean on top of simply making and bracing a spec top)...but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

I'm at one of my customers' places today, and they end up having 7.5 hours into a guitar. UV finish, pre-made fretboards, pre-made bridges, and CNC-roughed necks. With the right jigs, one can make stock fingerboards and bridges really fast (I'd say 1H each, easy). Kevin Ryan can do a neck, without his CNC, in about an hour. So tack that stuff on top and you're looking at 10.5 hours. If the guy can reach half the average speed of the factory workers, he'll have almost 10 hours left over. I'm not saying he does, but it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility that there's someone who can average half the clip of the factory guys (and Mayes proves that there is) and there's no reason someone with CNC wouldn't spend just as much time tuning their acoustics as someone without.

(FWIW: this customer has a lot of copies of each but, outside of the UV oven and the CNCed parts, their jigs and fixtures are all similar to stuff a lot of independent luthiers use.)

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services