Official Luthiers Forum!

Hesh posted a great thread (as usual) about what topics should be covered in the forum. I was kinda expecting some of the topics to show up in the "Subject" line in new threads, but it turned into a discussion about what to discuss. Soooo, I guess I'll start one.

I'd like to resaw a Mahogany slab I have. I've been testing resawing on 2" x 8" pine. I haven't gotten a clean cut yet (in a lotta tries!). I believe my 2hp 16" bandsaw with a 3/4" wood slicer blade could do the job. Gotta be my technique.

What's your method?

I'm using 5" high fence and here is a typical result. Thx, Tony

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Tony Flippo

Tony, I use an 8 inch fence with a 1 1/4" woodmaster blade and have no problems except smoothness of cut could be better. If your blade is reasonably sharp, I would start with checking the tension, and think about a higher fence.

Chuck

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How may teeth per inch ? I use a ceramic guide on a 19 inch saw. My blade is 1 inch wide 1 2/3 teeth per in. I use a high fence and press the wood against the fence. I also figure about .100 for removing saw marks.
I cut top and back plate at about .225 " and sides at .150"

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
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Way-to-go Tony bro!!!

I am going to be all over this thread listening intently because resawing is in my future with my new saw.

Great topic!!!

I have been playing with this for a few years and am still even refining my process. I have four bandsaws, two of them are resaws. I say this because there is a distinction between the two. For occasional resawing you can do it on a bandsaw and I know that Larry Stamm runs the tonewood portion of his engelmann spruce business on 14" Delta with a riser block...so there are exceptions! The main difference between a "bandsaw" and a "resaw" is blade tension. A buddy of mine just bought a nice big 20" bandsaw and we thought that it would be great for resawing, but the frame is way lighter than my 24" resaw and the band tension is no where near where I can get mine but he can indeed resaw with it to the degree he needs. But to be successful there are a couple principles one must be aware of and I will discuss below:

1) Clearing the Kerf - This is by far (in my small mind) the most important part of resawing. You are dragging that tooth through 8 or more inches of wood. Once that kerf loads up the gullet, the teeth can no longer do their job. There are three ways to address this, they are:
.....set of the teeth. A wider set gives the gullet more area to store the sawdust until the blade exits the cut. The down side is a wider kerf means more of your nice wood as sawdust and less as guitar sets.
.....Tooth spacing. Fewer teeth are better (to a limit) in resawing. Both of my saws have 1 tooth per inch. Fewer teeth = larger tooth gullet = more room to store sawdust until tooth exits the cut.
.....Feed rate. A slower feed rate allows the tooth to take a smaller cut thereby depositing less sawdust in the gullet before exiting the cut.

2) Tracking - ensure that your fence is adjusted to run parallel with the cut. I do this as has been described many times on this board and else where. Draw a straight line and cut on the line freehand, match your fence parallel with the cut. If you drew your line parallel to one edge of the board then you just need to adjust your fence to the edge of the board for example. Improper tracking can effect the way the teeth clear and improperly heat the band causing it to distort. Again, a wider set gives you more room for error in this regard but wastes more wood.

3) Fence and Wood holding - I like a long high fence for resawing and a key to getting good consistent cuts is understanding the properties of the wood your are sawing. Bruce Crepps of Notable Woods wrote a great article for American Lutherie a year or two ago about resawing on his Hitachi. In there he discussed the importance of having mechanical (in his case a pneumatic system) aid in holding the wood against the fence. When I process spruce and cedar I prefer to do it right after I have split it off the block which was recently cut from the log. I have a "feel" for how well the wood is sitting against the fence and the irregular split face on the outside would be hard to use assistance with so I just do it by hand. But I have a Hitachi that I use for hardwoods and I will be making a pneumatic hold for that saw (I have the pieces I just need the time). For hardwoods this is pretty important because a lot of times the wood is dried and becomes "case hardened" so when you start making cuts the wood actually starts to deform and you end up with cuts like Tony shows in his pictures. And recovering from those cuts usually costs some more valuable wood.

I find resawing is like voicing a top. One can tell you the principles but the only way you will really get decent at it is by doing it and paying attention to the successes and the failures and figuring out what caused each. I constantly "listen" to my saw as it will tell me what is going well and what is not by the sound of the saw itself and of the blade traveling through the wood. I have to say that it took me a while to figure out what worked and what didn't for my needs with my equipment but addressing the basic principles as described above is what keeps me successful (in my mind anyways) on my saws.

Thanks and good luck!

Shane

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Canada

Tony, I saw (pun not intended) cuts like that on my big Laguna bandsaw (Resaw King blade) when I first got it. The Laguna guy said it could be due to either a) the bottom blade "bearings" not being aligned properly with the top ones, or b) the blade isn't tight enough. Turned out to be a combination of both. The Laguna guy said I could easily double the tension on the blade (twice the recommended tension!) without any issues. After aligning the "bearings" (ceramic pads on my saw) and doubling the blade tension, the problem went away. The reason it does this apparently, is that the blade being loose and/or mis-aligned a little allows the blade to wander with the grain in the wood on a long cut like this. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dave F.

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EDIT:While I was typing you got some expert advice! EDIT


Tony-
I'm no expert at resawing- just a beginner also.
I'm assuming the plank face was flat (no curve or twist) and you held it firmly against the fence (which was square to the table).
Is the blade up to tension?
Did you adjust the fence for 'drift' ? If the blade 'wants' to cut along a different 'line' than the fence, the blade can 'pull' toward or away from the fence. If you are using the standard machine fence, sometimes enlarging the holes where the fence extrusion is bolted to the clamping assembly will give you enough 'slop' to allow adjusting the fence angle.

BTW, I usually 'flip' the plank after each cut so that any 'wedge' effect doesn't 'build up' as more cuts are made.

Good idea to work on 'scrap' wood first!

Cheers
John

I have resawn a lot, and at times it can be frustrating like this. Basically, if you have a smallish saw(I have an 18 inch jet that I would consider junk, except I somehow coax it into working)like I do, I think you just need to be extra careful, ie check everything you can think of, lot of stuff can cause the condition you have, including a dull blade, drift, misalignment and tension. With a poor saw like mine, Ihave found it will always be something different. I just think the wood is more important and spend my money there.
Keep checking, you will figure it out. I think once I had a new wood slicer that cut that way out of the box. Always have two.

When you guys are talking about setting up the fence for drift, how often do you need to do that? Just once? Every blade change? Every time you retension the blade?

Mike

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Mike Lindstrom

Typically every blade change, unless something else changes, such as tracking etc.

Shane

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Canada

Shane, Thank you for your replies. You got the gist of the thread and make a lotta sense. I appreciate it. Tony

P.S. I'd still like to see how you hold your stock to the fence... feather board?... pneumatic?... custom?...

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Tony Flippo

I am using ceramic guides. This helped a lot. Shane's primer on resawing is a valuable tool and print it out and study it. Most people are using the wrong blade. My first attempt at resawing was a practice in scrapping wood and making dust.
Once I learned to use the right blade things went much better. I use a lennox carbide tipped blade. Also how the wood is held on the fence is as important as how it is held on the table. Be sure you have a good squared face and edge. Find the proper feed rate to match your blade and material.
Forcing the blade is not a good thing nor is going too slow. You can feel the sweet spot when you get there. It is almost as though the wood is feeding itself.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Excellent thread , I have been resawing on a 14" delta with a 6" riser . I have to usally cut a 3/4" piece in half annd then plane it down to get what i want because the drift is alot . I appreciate the input here . My fence is a 2 x 4 clamped . so I GUESS i have some fence "mending" to do to get better

I have been using 1/2" blades . Think the 14: delta will handle a larger blade without burning it up ?? anyone ??

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Here's a link to a resawing video. Hope I did this right.http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-16- ... re-veneer/

Here's what has worked for me. I'm in the process of setting up an old 20" Delta with a narrow kerf carbide blade, so my method will (I hope) be changing. But I think this is a great method for anyone without a real resaw in a non-production setting:

Put a 40 tooth 7-1/2" Diablo blade (.059 kerf) in the the tablesaw with 3-1/2" stabilizers. This will enable you to get about 1-1/2" depth of cut. Set the fence, saw the piece on both sides. For sides, this leaves you only about 2" left to cut. For backs, it leaves about 5".

Then go to your bandsaw, set up as well as you can get it with a steel resaw blade (especially be sure of two things: that the edge of the stock on the table is square to the face of the board you are producing--actually, both edges will have had to be square for the two tablesaw cuts to be aligned--and that the table is square to the blade), and saw the cut freehand--no fence. It is not hard to track this cut freehand. The blade wants to stay in the previous cut because it offers so much less resistance; it's easy to see the line you are cutting, and you don't have to worry about blade lead (which I have found on a small saw keeps changing while you are cutting because the blade heats up more on the side to the wheels due to compression). You often end up without even nicking the sides of the cut that the Diablo blade left. So you lost .060" to the kerf. A good resaw can do a bit better on the kerf size, but it's unlikely that you can do any better on a home shop bandsaw. And your risk of trashing a piece from a bowed cut goes down close to zero.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

My setup is an 18" Jet Saw, roller guides, 1" Resaw King blade (3 tpi, variable pitch), and the Driftmaster fence with the 4" high fence (an 8" is on the way!). Once drift is accounted for, and table is perpendicular to blade, I have no problem cutting repeatable slices. There is a difference with the Driftmaster. You do not make the cuts up close to the fence. The cuts are are made on the outside of the board. You simply turn the micro-adjust knob so many turns each time for the same thickness. It is very accurate and repeatable.

Blade tension must be properly set as well!

I have not tried this technique yet, but am planning to on my next cut. Take a sacrifical board. Plane and level it on all edges (well, front and back, and bottom). Now, glue the piece to be resawed to this board. After dry, resaw the wood. If you plan well, your last cut should be through the glue line (or very close to it).

What this does is minimize cupping of the main piece as you cut it. Everytime you make a cut, stresses in the board are released that cause it to warp. Many address this by running the board through a planer (or sander) before making the next cut. However, that is wasteful and expensive. Any warping in the cut piece can be addressed by stickering for a few days.

I hope some of you with big saws (16 and up) will give the driftmaster a try. For those of you with 14" saws, use the clamp down fence method, adjust for drift, and cut up against the fence. You still can use the sacrificial board trick!

Mike

Mike, are there potential issues with using the Driftmaster fence on a non-Laguna saw? Is there a necessary table thickness for mounting it? It looks like it would mount to the back side of the table. Or is it the front side? So do you need to drill and tap mounting holes, or drill and use nuts on the inside to bolt it?

Also, can you deflect the fence when you push the work against it?

Any issues with blade changes? I see that it mounts tto the front of the table, where it appears to block the blade slot.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

You can also use the Driftmaster like a standard fence - adjusting with the micro-adjust and then locking the fence for your cuts.
With a good blade and correct drift angle I get pretty good results in easier woods. I was cutting some 6' boards for laminated sides a week ago and the 'scrap' on the final cut was a .025" inch slice for the whole 6'.
It's cool when you can tie the scrap in a knot!
Cheers
John

Howard-
I'm not Mike, but I can add a few details.
I think you could mount the Driftmaster on most saws that could accept a couple of 1/2" holes in the front edge of the table.

Looking at the manual:
http://www.lagunatools.com/company/DriftMaster-Technical-Support/DriftMaster-Operating-Manual
there are two adapter plates provided which mate the fence clamp assembly to the front edge of the table. These can 'swing' sideways to get the fence to be level with the saw table. These would use through-bolts- no tapping required.

I have not noticed any deflection in the fence when hand-holding work against it. The fence is free at the 'far' end in normal use- you could always clamp a block against it if movement was a concern. The clamp mechanism is a very solid steel unit and the fence is a good aluminum extrusion.

The mounting bolts should be attached to the left of the saw slot so there is no problem with blade changes. You just need to slide the fence out of the way. That said, I don't change blades often on my saw as I have the luxury of a 2nd saw for 'utility' work.

Cheers
John

I'll second the advice about getting a good (carbide) band for resawing, keeping in mind the band thickness and wheel size, etc.

The expense does not seem that great once you mess up an expensive board using a once-sharp steel band.

Cheers
John

What's a good carbide blade for a 14" saw? 3/4" is widest I can use.

I don't think any manufacturer recommends their carbide blade for a 14" saw. Rule of thumb used to be 20", but some now say they have improved the flex and you can go as small as 16". The other problem is tensioning a wide band on a 14" saw. Most just won't do it without distorting the frame.

If you follow the method I described above, you can get good results with steel, even with a 1/2" band.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I wouldn't get a 3/4" blade for a 14" saw. I don't think you can tension it enough. 1/2" would be much better.

A few thoughts on re-sawing. That old addage "garbage in garbage out" certainly applies. If your board is twisted or warped you need to straighten it out before attemtping to resaw. I have found blade that adiusting the fence for blade drift to be critical in getting nice uniform cuts. Usually once a new blade is set for drift it will stay OK for a long time. When I set the fence for drift and take a few practice cuts I strive for a nice straight cut with the board hugging the fence with virtually no side pressure. If I can accomplish that I know my setup is good. If the drift is off then no amount of side pressure will compensate for it. You can't force the blade to go where it doesn't want to go.
Not having time to glue a scrap board to the piece I'm cutting (would spend all my time gluing but it does work) I will look at the first slice off the saw. If I see that it cups a lot I will take the next slice of the ipposite side. This usually compensates and leaves the remaing piece flat enogh to finish the last 2 cuts. This generally only happens on 1" thick stock. I use the Lenox Woodmaster CT carbide with 1.2 TPI. Cuts great and lasts a long time. I have a driftmaster fence for my Laguna that I bought when they first came out. Nice fence. I took it off the saw when we moved into the new shop 2 1/2 years ago and haven't used it since. Seems like I never have time to re-mount it. Right now I use the original fence in the high position which is 5" Never seem to need anything higher than that.
Hope that some of this rambling is helpful.

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John, I agree with Howard. I use a 14 Rikon saw and find it tensions a 1/2" blade the best for resawing even though it's rated for 3/4" blades. Tony, I think your lower guides or bearings need to be realined to correct your problem.

Thanks to all that suggested new/different equipment. However, the thread is really about method.

John, that is an awesome video. Thanks to the woodwhisper's video and Shane's excellent overview, I think I'm on my way. I was missing two key components - bandsaw tension and holding the stock square/tight to the fence.

Here is my method as of today.

1. Place pulley speed on high - my bandsaw goes up to 3265 FPM

2. Tighten bandsaw blade really tight - I mean really tight. If you think it's way too tight, then it's probably ok. Before, I did not have the blade tight enough.

3. Make all bandsaw adjustments (thrust bearings, guides, etc.).

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Tony Flippo