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I've had both the Stewmac and Simpson versions, both which have their shortcomings, especially regarding the mortising aspect, so I finally threw down the big bucks for the King Daddy, thinking all my issues would be quickly forgotten like a bad dream.

The first time I received my jig from LuthierTools, I quickly realized they had machined the holes for the gimbals a good 3/32" off-center, so it was impossible to align anything to a centerline. Turns out, they machine those holes based on crosshairs cut into a plexiglas centering template which is then included with the jig. Well, the lines were cut 3/32" off-center on the template, so that error was telegraphed to the entire jig...

So I talked to Chris, who was fairly shocked by the inaccuracy, and told me to box it all back up and return it so they could rebuild the jig. Their turnaround was fairly expedient, and now having received the rebuilt jig, I'm preparing to use it for the first time. Well, there are a few things that stand out as lacking with this jig that had I been aware of initially, might have influenced my decision to purchase. Hopefully some folks with experience using this jig can offer suggestions for workarounds.

First of all, after very meticulously going through the setup instructions (which are confusing, incomplete, and poorly written), I find that the jig is still slightly off-center, relative to the centering template. I think I can eliminate this by loosening and tweaking the base for the top plate, but still, it's frustrating to have to do this myself before it's usable.
Second, the template for cutting the tenon doesn't allow for the router bit to clear the material all the way to the edge of the blank. I figure I can modify the template on the spindle sander to gain better access, but again, I wonder why this isn't addressed in its manufacture.
Third, there's no adjustment for the length of the tenon. Apparently it's one-size-fits-all. I guess I could work around this by shortening it by hand after routing, but again, feels like a compromise and something that should've been addressed in the design.


I really want to like this jig, but so far, I feel like I'm taking one step forward and two back. Any thoughts or suggestions for workarounds are appreciated.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

trying to cut a mortise and tenon or dovetail?????

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MK5acoustics.com

M&T


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

Ken
Get in touch with Hans Bentrup, I cam across a thread of his and he said that jig is saving him quite a bit of time (8 hours?)
Good luck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBmFwKH5bVY

I can't help you with work arounds, sorry. However, I thought I would share my experiences with the Luthier Tool Neck Angle Jig.
I bought a Mark I version thinking it would totally be plug and play, zip zip. Between the jig and the templates I had over $1100 invested. Like you, deciphering the instructions took many hours and I had to make my own instructions so I did not get bogged down each time I used the jig. I mentioned the inscrutable instructions to Chris he said that yes, he's a bad writer. Seems like he could have hired a technical writer if other folks were having the same problem as you and me. A number of years has elapsed since I bought my jig and you bought yours. Plenty of time to get it worked out.
I found the setup and registration extremely fiddly and even when I thought I had it dialed in it required more futzing by hand. The biggest surprise was that the mortise template and tenon template did not make exact-fitting components. I would up having to buy an undersized plywood bit (one that cuts a slot for actual thickness of plywood rather than nominal) and do the final fitting by hand in order to achieve the glove-like fit we expect. Hardly a time saver!
I wound up throwing in the towel and selling it for half of what I paid for it.
I think the jig probably works well for dovetails. If you set the jig to cut dovetails just a bit proud of the top surface a couple of swipes with a sandpaper block will make it seat correctly. There is not the same fudge factor with mortise and tenon.
I have lots of respect for Chris and he's a talented tool designer and machinist. If no one points out the problems with a product then the maker thinks all is hunky dory and nothing changes. The hardest critiques I have had to hear about my guitars wound up being the most constructive in terms of making a better product.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

I have the MKII, and it too had issues, some of which were resolved with additional templates. I had Chris make me an additional template that had the MT section in the middle but allowed the router to go almost to the Aluminum. I then pop in the MT template and finish the rout. Problem solved.

I don't have this tool but I did buy another version from a different maker. Same issue, so complicated to figure out and with obvious manufacturing discrepancies that I never used it. I do use a jig that I bought from lutherie school, and after completely disassembling it and correcting the manufacturing mistakes that included having the routing surface out of perpendicular to the center line of the neck blank, it works well. I have come to the conclusion over many years that there is almost no such thing as a jig or shop machine that will work as intended right out of the box. I call just about everything I buy a "kit" because I know I will have to spend a half day or more on it before it works correctly and accurately.

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It will probably be alright.

I certainly plan on calling Chris to discuss these design shortcomings. Thanks for your insights.



Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

David, how do you deal with the tenon length issue? Do you have different templates for each model, or do you just use a standardized tenon length? I assume you had to pay for the modified templates? I'm very reluctant to throw any more money at this thing just to make it usable.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I use a standardized tenon. Back in the pre-NT Taylor days, they had different spacings for their neck bolts depending on the body depth. Steve Henderson and Larry Breedlove noticed that there were more warranty repairs on the deeper bodies for failed necks, i.e., cracked heels. Consequently, when they formed Breedlove, they went with Grand Concert bolt spacing. I followed suit, without incident for some twenty years. I had Chris make a custom template when I ordered it so it only came down so far. I should add that I am careful to rout that last bit in stages, too. Don't try and cut the whole tenon in one pass.

Why not use a standard tenoning jig for those that have a table saw.
With this jig and a miter slide I can create a tenon within a few minutes.
General, Delta, Grizzly and many more make this.
They can be had for around $100 and are useful for many other operations than just neck tenons.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

You need an other template.

I let Chris made me an drilling jig for the neck too (on the left).

Regards,


Edzard

FWIW I too tried one of the neck angle jigs and found it cumbersome and inaccurate, I like to keep everything square, then use a 12 inch disc sander to set the neck angle to the body and then use Cumpiano's method on a table saw to cut the tenon, mortise is built into the neck block....for me its easy and one less jig!!

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MK5acoustics.com

Did Chris make the MT template of aluminum? Mine are acrylic.

The original version or at least the version I have of the jig came with aluminum templates. I do not understand the version that is in OP picture. The tool does not make any sense unless you can rout the cheeks that will be in contact with the rims. That is the whole purpose of the jig to be able to set the angle while you are routing out the tenon.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Indeed... Easy enough to modify, but still...


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I agree. I also think a wider router base would be helpful, as the width of the jig opening on MKII is such that a standard round base can tip in if you don't use a template so as to get the cheeks.

I understand some folks liking the table saw for this, and in certain respects its more efficient in a rough way, but this jig allows you to get really close to your fit. Off the jig, I can fit the neck in 15 minutes, or less. That's a time savings.

I've never used a jig of any sort for cutting a tenon or mortise.

I cut the tenon while the neck is still square using my table saw, and the mortise gets put into the block before box is assembled.

Exactly.



Nothing rough about it at all. I generally get a tenon requiring little or no tuning directly off the tablesaw. A light press fit. Touch up with a shoulder plane as required.
Though I probably cut hundreds or more M&T joints long before I ever saw a neck joint.

Apologies to Ken if this is hijacking.

B

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.