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So I got hold of a sample of the porefiller and sealer. The rep actually suggested that the sealer is useable as a topcoat. First impression are favourable.

I did a quick and dirty test panel today, maybe 1.5-2hr labour start to finish. The porefill is the same consistency of the epoxy normally used, and workability was about the same. I did have some small issue with texturing from the credit card I used to spread it but it sanded out fine. I wasn’t exactly trying hard, just a quick and dirty test.

The sealer is good for brushing right out of the jug, great self levelling properties, and not so thin that it runs. It did look a little weird going on like it had little pinholes or grainy nits, but again, it sanded out fine. I think that light sanding between coats would help.

I think it’s probably a pretty hard finish, as sanding and buffing was a bit of a chore. But maybe that’s a good thing. I would feel pretty comfortable power sanding this rather than hand sanding.

I had no issues with it kicking off under my shop flouros, but I turned all the closest ones off and drew the blind. However, one minute in the sun and it was fully cured and sanding to powder. I think the 70$ cure light would be a good investment if adopting this as a finish solution.

It is quite expensive at around 120USD for a quart, but, so does the equivalent amount of West epoxy more or less. With the porefill, same as epoxy, basically none of it goes to waste, so I would expect to get at least 20-25 jobs out of it, maybe more. I think the time saved outweighs the cost significantly.

With the sealer/topcoat, it might add up as with spraying much of it gets wasted, but as I’m brushing that’s also a non issue for me. This stuff brushed on very nicely, especially in comparison to RoyalLac, lol. Hooboy.

It does smell, but that disappeared swiftly as soon as it cured.

I could easily see being able to go from raw wood to buffed out guitar in a day.

I’ve yet to torture test it, but I will soon. I’ll chuck the test piece into the freezer and do some cross hatching tests for adhesion.

Of course, the only thing that actually matters is how it affects the tone of the guitar, but I won’t be able to test that out for a while.

As you’ll see in the pics I hit it a little hard with the buffer, as you can see the pores have sunk. TBH that’s what I personally like to see, but it may upset a purist.

Over the next little while I’ll try to do a few more panels to test on spruce, and to see about burn through repair ability. And I’ll try buffing out the porefill, cause, hey, what if it could be a one layer solution? Dare to dream…

This was 1 coat of sealer, 4 porefill and a 50/50 washcoat, and 4 sealer topcoats. Film coat around 2.5-3 thou with no burn throughs. Could have been sanded better as you can see, but this was just a quick and dirty experiment to just have a gander. TBH, it seems quite promising, but again it all comes down to what it does to the sound…one day!

NICE!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Very interesting.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanks for the rundown and to look forward to hearing your results!

Takes 4 coats to fill the pores?

Pat

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Pat

So, 1 minute of curing a sealer coat in sunlight and you were able to go straight applying the next coat?

Is the pore filler UV cured?

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Yep, 4 coats cause I kept sanding through when trying to level. First try, lol.

Yes, porefill is UV cure to, one minute in the sun and done. You can also buy cheap wands with the right bandwidth for fairly cheap, it was mentioned in a different thread about UV cured stuff.

The more I look at the test piece the better I think it looks. I froze it and took it out and no checking. Adhesion test tomorrow…

I'll be following with interest especially since you got those results in such a very short time and by brushing it on.

Does it have any coloration/tint to it, or is it completely clear?

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Seems pretty clear to me. I’ll test on spruce soon…

Thanks for the detailed report. Do you know whether it takes dye or pigment?


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Glad to hear it is working out so far! Like I said in the other thread, I think I prefer working with material that won’t kick so fast in regular sunlight, because I have windows in my shop that I don’t want to cover up, but this sounds like a very promising UV cure finish. I’m very much sold on the value of UV cured finishes, even with the high material cost. Being able to cut out all that cure time is pretty valuable to me.

Nice, thanks for doing the tests Ed. I look forward to seeing how it comes out on a guitar. What is the health and safety concerns with using it? Do you need a booth and respirator?

Ed,
Thanks for posting this info, I am interested in seeing how this holds up to abuse. I am looking for durable finish for electric guitars and not have to spend a bunch on equipment. If this cures as fast as you say then this may be a good finish to get the look I am after.

Would be interesting to find out if it can be tinted or colored to produce a solid color.

I'll be watching this with interest.

Cheers,
Bob

Josh, no idea if this can take color, I’ll ask…

Don, to me just drawing the blinds while applying finish is an acceptable compromise. I’ll do some more testing with full shop lights to see what happens.

JF, I’m extremely curious to see how it comes out on an actual guitar and the effects it has on the tone. This has left me in a feedback loop for over a decade trying to find a gloss that sounds as good as my satin. OTOH, Taylor is putting out 5k+ satin guitars, and I just did a show with a guy selling a satin guitar for 12kUSD so maybe this is all for naught, lol. As for safety protocols, all can be found on the MSDS that can be found on the websites. For brushing I think ventilation and a proper respirator is adequate, if I was spraying, well, I wouldn’t spray anything at all personally without a forced air suit. But their recommendations can be found online. Apparently it’s 100% solids with 0% VOC.

Bob, no data on durability but considering how it sanded and buffed I’d have a fair amount of confidence. I know that finish does effect the tone of electrics as well, it’s just further down the list, but if I built electrics I’d be an instant convert. I’ll try to find out about colouring.

The more I look at this test panel the more I think it’s perfect. I’ll try to do more today…

Was reading the spray schedule you add alcohol to get it to spray.

Ed, what is the topcoat though? What I found on the site said it was their patented blend of herbs and spices. Do you know what it is?


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It looked interesting to me until I read the SDS: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5f97527 ... %20SDS.pdf

As I understand it, it requires a body suit and you don’t bring your clothing back into the house after you spray. Maybe I’m too cautious, but I work out of my house.

So this stuff can be tinted with solvent based tints, and diluted with isopropyl alcohol and acetone. DNA was not recommended.

Brad, I don’t know. Some sort of polymer. Whatever those are, lol.

Bob, a bodysuit with forced air is probably good advice for spraying anything. I have no intention of spraying, brushing is my only option.

Ed - I looked at the CleanArmor website and they have quite a variety of products. Which pore filler and sealer products did you test?




The way I read the SDS for that product, it's not really any worse than what you see on the SDSs for other finishes that are used as spray applications. My take on SDSs in general is that they are written in full cover-your-behind mode which sucks because it makes it hard to assess how hazardous a product actually is for the way you would use it, for the conditions you would use under, and for how frequently or infrequently you would be exposed to it.

Their website says that the product has no volatile organic compounds and no hazardous air pollutants and skin contact can be cleaned up with soap and water. It sounds fairly benign to me as finishes go. Particularly if you are brushing it on. If spraying it, then the usual precautions for any finish that's sprayed on would apply so as to not inhale it.


I also noticed they describe the finish as 100% solids which would suggest that it would build fast.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

The 800 grain filler and the 810 sealer. I’m already sold on the porefill. Works exactly like epoxy except you can cure by standing in the sun for a minute. So the sealer is also the buffed topcoat.

That's cool about the pore filler.

I noticed this statement in the Technical Data Sheet for the 810 sealer: "Sealer is designed to be very rigid to improve holdout for top coats and is not designed to be polished." That's interesting since in your photos you were able to get a very nice gloss on the sealer. Makes me wonder what the gloss would be like on their 830 buffable top coat product.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Yeah, me too. How much more gloss does it need to get? But just cause it was designed for one thing, doesn’t mean it can’t do another.

I put that test panel in the freezer then took it out and put it in the sun, no checking, dragged a pick back and forth a few hundred times and you can’t even tell.

Ultimately, to me the only thing that matters is how it affects the tone of the guitar, but it’ll be some time till I can knock a spare one together…if it says it was designed to be rigid, well…I guess there’s little point in speculation. I’ll test on spruce soon.

Regarding the rigidity, there's also this description of the sealer:

"Excellent flow and level. Excellent adhesion. Optically clear. Flexible. Easy sand. Non-yellowing. Excellent weathering. Tintable."

So, I guess trying it out as you are doing is the best way to see what's what.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

It will be interesting to see what happens with guitar tone. I look forward to this experiment. I guess when I hear 'you can't scratch it with a pick,' coming from someone who almost exclusively does FP finishes because of tone, I get to thinking hmmmm that can't be good?

But it is definitely good for the gigging guitarists who likes to have a nice looking guitar. And if you can get it thin enough it would probably be a reasonable trade off if have any affect at all. Maybe it even makes it better?

So yeah looking forward to hearing about this one.

And this seems to cover the health concerns:

https://www.cleanarmor.com/#cleaner

Yep, tone is the motivator. I hear what you’re saying, that’s a real concern. We’ll know more at some point. Spruce tests to come…

Any word on shelf life?

CleanArmor website says: The product shelf life is 12 months provided the container remains sealed and is not exposed to extreme hot or cold temperatures within the range of 50°f to 90°f.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter