Official Luthiers Forum!

To all the luthiers here who do it exclusively i.e. "no day job"

How do you manage to bring like 4-6 guitars to a show? I know full well that each one costs upwards of $500 just in material costs, and a LOT of time on each one. How do you build so many without selling them, without running out of money for living expenses?

I think most guys are bringing guitars that are already sold, or at least most of the guitars are sold already. Many builders do have a stable of what they make to show....it takes commitment that's for sure.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

At this year's Montreal Show I took two guitars that were just completed as commissions and hadn't been delivered yet (got the owners permission of course) and one that I built at nights for the show. Not many builders I know have a table full of guitars for sale. In a pinch I contact owners who have had their instruments for a while and ask if I could display them.

David Wren http://www.wrenguitarworks.com

For show season, I plan on doing at least two new, interesting guitars. It's built into the schedule so no one's commission is delayed. The cost of having inventory is much less than the cost of going to an important, expensive show without a solid and eye-catching display.

At the Healdsburg Festival, Al Petteway was playing for me. I knew that two guitars I had would appeal to him but I also wanted a couple more to choose from. Got one finished up and got permission from a client to show his new baritone -- and Al liked enough to rock the demo concert with two tunes on it. I polished, adjusted, and re-strung it before delivering it and now I'm working on another in time for Woodstock!

It's all part of the business side of lutherie: something some of us don't particularly enjoy and aren't especially good at. But it's essential in these post-boom days.

I take as many guitars as I can . I try not to take commission instruments unless they are getting picked up at the show. I like to have something traditional to contemporary . Cost of inventory is part of doing business . It is hard to know what will sell but you can't go to market in an empty wagon .
Often you may get a commission from what you have . You have to know what works best for you .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Considering that all of my guitars are French polished I would NEVER bring a client's instrument to a show under any circumstances, it's way too risky.
I'm also not willing to put myself under the gun trying to complete instruments for a show, especially seeing that a sale is unlikely.
It is also risky considering that that the more quickly someone falls in love with something the more quickly they can fall out of love with it as well. One has to manage the client's impulse for immediate gratification. Everyone is served better in the long run if you do.
My tactic is to have two instruments which well represent my work that I keep to bring to shows and which are designed to be played (and to acquire play wear) and that I don't have to be unduly nervous about.
Since I'm looking for commission sales only with a minimun wait time of around 5-6 months these demo guitars give me a solid basis of discussion with a client to see exactly what specifications will best suit their needs.
I think these days especially, the chances of your hitting exactly what a client wants in what you've happened to bring are close to zero.
So far I've used this approach at one Miami show, three GFA conventions, the Woodstock Invitational (coming up soon again) as well as several smaller shows and it has worked well enough to allow me to have a schedule of commissions that is as busy as I want it to be.
The other very important thing is that working on commission allows me to involve the client (through email and photos) in the creation of the guitar and usually they have fallen in love with it before they have even touched it.
Vital in keeping problems to a minimum.

David is a respected professional luthier and seems to have found a system that works well for him. My experience is a little different. (Does that mean that I'm not a respected professional? Hope not!) If you aren't one of the rock stars of the business, you need to attract attention somehow. Mainly, I find that at heavily-trafficked shows (Healdsburg since '97, two Newports in Rhode Island, other smaller shows), if you're trying to catch people's eyes, you must have shiny, new guitars. That's not to say that they're in any way better than a lovingly played older guitar, just that eye candy gets their attention so the discussion can begin. I try to have a professional display with enough bling that people stop and start talking and playing. Having a good demo concert is also important; I've been lucky having players who can identify and demonstrate my instruments' strengths.

It would be wonderful if we all actually shopped intelligently, paying attention only to those things that are really important. I haven't found too many people who operate like that.

And like David, I most often don't sell at the show; folks will place orders rather than buy what's on the table -- and that's fine with me. Having an understanding of the player's needs and trying to create an instrument that meets them is the exciting, challenging, rewarding part.

I am in no way a luthier, let alone a professional, I build 3 guitars a year for friends and family. However, I have to believe that if I were going to a show full of custom guitars, I would probably not buy an "off the rack" guitar that one of the luthiers has brought. Those guitars will give me an idea of what each builder does however. Based upon the instruments I will have looked at and played at the show, I would then commission a guitar with the builder who I felt made the type of guitar I liked best.
To the luthiers who bring instruments to display, and in particular, Rick Davis, since you mentioned that you will bring two new and interesting guitars to a show like Healsdburg, will you build two guitars that show off everything you can do? For example, a wedge body with a cutaway and a side port to encompass several of your optional features into one instrument? Would you also put the "spiral" rosette? (Yes, I looked at your site to refresh my memory, I do not have it memorized, though I do like your work a lot!) Or, would you bring a one flashy and one understated guitar to show prospective customers you can go in either direction?
Do you(and this is for anyone who displays their work at any show) have pictures of your guitars all over, a brochure, etc? I have never attended one of these shows despite my great desire to do so. They just never seem to hold Healdsburg in Brooklyn, NY for some reason!

Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated. Not that I will be displaying anytime soon, just curious.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Hi Rick, you are definitely on target about having "eye catching" instruments to get people over to your table.
The two demo guitars that I have are both designed with inlay work and striking wood combinations to make them good eye candy and to snag folks as they walk on by.

this isn't an easy question nor is there a perfect answer , but when you go to shows , it isn't the sale of the day that is as important is it is the sale of tomorrow. David is on the money I believe that you need something to catch the eye and hope the ear of a client .
I build steel strings only so I need to take at least 2 sizes of guitars . I am finding for me 000-12 frets are the better sellers for me . Conversions also seem to be a niche I have . What shows do , are get you noticed . I am by no means a big wheel in the building world but I do have a root clientele .
Then you have to look at the type of show. The Phily show is different than the Woodstock show so there I would take different instruments . I am looking forward to Woodstock but that show works better for me as a supplier . There is only one thing I can tell you and that is if you don't go to shows, you won't sell them there .
Exposure of your product is essential for your success . There is a big difference between being a hobby builder and treating this as a business .
See you in Woodstock

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Well Tony, Woodstock NY isn't all that far! According to people who know, it took me less than a day to hitchhike there from the East Village ... I don't remember much of that time, of course.

When I build for shows, yes, I show off a bit. Wedge on those that benefit from it; some sort of trick inlay or rosette perhaps, a soundport definitely. A soundport makes a huge difference in a noisy room, often the difference between taking the guitar out for an extended session or walking to the next table.

And I like to have variety. I took a terz guitar to Healdsburg and it got a lot of play. A couple of people mentioned that it might have been the only one at the show. Petteway played it on stage; people commented on it (favorably). I'm still waiting for the deposit ...

The main thing is that I get to do what I want. I've had very little luck with building something just to appeal to the market. So I choose wood that I think will give the tone I want AND that looks good. I do decoration that appeals to my taste. And add the features that I'd want. Often I get a bit playful, like this:


(Cut for me by Larry Robinson)

The idea isn't to show off, it's to represent oneself at one's best. Here's the inlay on one of my Healdsburg guitars --



It's sized nicely on the headstock but doesn't overwhelm it. There are no other inlays anywhere. Just a cool design drawn by the daughter of a friend (designbyzoe.com) that I really liked and was quite different and eye-catching. It's unlikely that anyone would ask me for this design but I thought it was worth being seen, so I got to do it on a show guitar.

And of course I have brochures etc. For a while, the biggest draw was running a slide show of previous work on my laptop. Now, many people are doing this (dang it!) so it's not as much of a draw as it once was. But it's good to have the images available in case a client gets into detail.

I think that's about all I know about shows. Try not to be too hungover; have clean clothes for each day; put on a happy face even after marathon days of greeting and hearing the same questions time and again; and be proud of your work. Anything more is hype.

Wow Rick! Great info and great inlays!! Thanks!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Every builder takes the time to build "spec" guitars in her or his schedule. There is no other way to experiment with new shapes, ideas & materials and to continue growing. The cost in materials is absolutely trivial compared to the time spent building "on spec" (aka. not remunerated). I suppose every builder is different, but I've never built more than two for a specific show, and I may bring another guitar I have on hand. I've even bumped commissions earlier in the schedule in exchange for the authorisation to display the guitar at a show. It can be risky with softer finishes, no doubt. In any case it is up to the builder to schedule commissions AND spec guitars for upcoming shows in a sensible, stress-free manner (ideally…).
I think 4, or worse 6, guitars on a table is excessive, and leads to confusion on the part of the viewer. Besides, the cost of shipping them when the show is further than driving distance is prohibitive. If the guitars do not sell during the show, they will sell after the show to a shop or customer. Nobody wants to (or can) keep too much inventory.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm learning quite a bit about this. Keepum coming.

I think everyone who displays their guitars at the big shows does so from their own perspective of what they hope to gain from participating. And each maker's situation is different.

I think if you are just barely making it as a luthier then you have to play it tighter to the vest, fewer guitars, showing finished commissions, delivering guitars at the show, etc. It also depends as Laurent pointed out how close you live to the show. The farther away you are the more expensive it will be.

If you are a well established maker and want to maintain the public perception of what you mostly make then you bring a couple of good examples of your work and it doesn't cost too much to let folks know you are still alive and kicking.

If you are looking to head in new directions or are looking to become more established, then you have to make the instruments that will get you there. Healdsburg, Montreal and other big shows are a sea of instruments and you need to have something that starts the conversation and makes yours stand out in a good way. By the time a potential buyer gets from one end of the room to the other they are often glazed over and can't really look at another guitar with the same interest they started.

It's probably true that the shows are more about exposure than sales, but I've been lucky. At my last three Healdsburg shows I've sold a guitar. That helps cover costs a lot. It doesn't hurt that I live close so I don't have to pay for a hotel or shipping guitars. I approached this year as I did the last Healdsburg, by making instruments that showed versatility. I had some different woods and shapes. There was a double cutaway (that I posted here), a half cedar, half redwood topped steel string with a Rodriguez classical shape (that one sold), what I call a jumbo parlor with oak back and sides from an antique dresser, and a typical small jumbo that I'm most known for. It might have been confusing to viewers but it got the conversation started and many took an instrument or two for a test drive. I think if I had just brought small jumbos I wouldn't have gotten as much response.

A couple of other thoughts... If you only bring two guitars and they are both being tried out at the same time, then you are left sitting at an empty table when a person who might really be interested walks by. Also, It's not a bad idea to have some more unique wood choices, something that only you or one or two others might have.

As far as tying up inventory, the guitars all seem to find a home after the show.

Lastly, these days it doesn't hurt to have a uke at the table.

_________________
Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

I have my trusty workhorse Cocobolo Freestyle that I originally built for Healdsburg 07. It's got flashy colors in the headstock / pickguard to attract attention, plays well, sounds great and has a pickup. I've had that guitar to many shows here in the States and even one in France. It's been played so much it needs a re-fret. I'll even let show visitors whom I know and trust take it overnight. If it got ruined, well that's what Heritage insurance is for.
Then I try to have something new every year. Last year it was my Alto, this year the Freestyle Parlor. Frequently they are prototype/beta instruments which I'll take back to the shop for analysis and re-engineering based on comments I get at shows. Since I am constantly re-inventing my work and trying to improve, shows are as much a sounding board for my designs as they are sales opportunities. Visitors either get what I'm doing, or they move along to more familiar shapes and designs. I'm finding that American buyers are very conservative in their guitar choices, no matter how much of a maverick they may perceive themselves to be.
Cost of these demo/show instruments is simply a part of doing business.

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©