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Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=52540		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  CarlD [ Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
I bought it in 1973 and used it quite a bit back then but it's lived in its case for many years. I put a FRAP pickup in it, remember those? After finishing the last two builds I got it out with the intention of a clean up / tune up and found the celluloid binding cracking and coming up in several places. One 5" piece is missing. There is some staining of the wood under the finish along side of the cracks maybe caused by moisture damage? I'll just live with that.
The shrinking pickguard caused the typical crack along the neck into and across the soundhole. Took the pickguard off causing a little damage under it but that part is all easily fixable. The finish is cracked all over but I think it adds to the charm.
My questions are:
Can I stabilize the binding cracks and reattach it in the loose spots with CA? or what?
The binding is .10" thick and any I can find at LMI/SM is about .058" (I did get a couple of pieces from China that were .058"). Is the thicker stuff available anywhere? Should I just double it up? It's hard to get the tortoise shell look cause the blotches don't match up. It's on the back so it probably won't matter.
I think I can get away without a neck reset for a while but it will need some action work when I string it up again.

Here's some pics:
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Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
I not only remember FRAP, I remember Barcus-Berry - and installed several of each back in the day. On your binding, I wouldn't suggest CA - maybe someone else has experience doing that. I get several old guitars crossing my bench yearly with crumbling and cracked binding, and believe it or not - the old standby still works for me. I am referring to those green and yellow tubes of Duco Cement. Careful application of Duco will hold the old binding and stabilize it. In really bad situations (worse than yours), I gently rub the affected area with Duco and melt it all back together. It does smear a bit, but will smooth out as it cures.

Obviously, this won't help your neck situation at all. Good luck with all of it!
Author:  CarlD [ Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Thanks Chris. That helps a lot. It probably has a lacquer finish and I know CA doesn't mix with that too well and the Duco might not either. I'll tape it off good.
Yeah, the FRAP preamp quit years ago, so I removed it. I bought a Miniflex 2 from Ken Donnell (he lives up the mountain from me) and thought I'd mount that in there for a while.
The neck will just take a fret dressing , maybe a new saddle. Should go OK.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Quote:
Thanks Chris. That helps a lot. It probably has a lacquer finish and I know CA doesn't mix with that too well and the Duco might not either. I'll tape it off good.
Yeah, the FRAP preamp quit years ago, so I removed it. I bought a Miniflex 2 from Ken Donnell (he lives up the mountain from me) and thought I'd mount that in there for a while.
The neck will just take a fret dressing , maybe a new saddle. Should go OK.


Actually, CA works well with lacquer (as long as you don't do something stupid). Duco will mess with lacquer, which is why I advised care.

Miniflex stuff is GREAT! I used to be the only shop in Kansas who actually stocked the things. Please say HI to Ken. I haven't seen him since the winter NAMM show in 1990. Tell him I'm still kicking!
Author:  CarlD [ Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Thanks again, I'll try to tack the binding with CA which is how I've been doing it lately anyway and then touch it up with Duco.

Ken has a little music center up in Greenwood, CA. His website is https://donnellsmusicland.com/. You can contact him there.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Careful application of medium or thick CA ( depending on how much is missing) will work well. It is a slow and tedious process. I do it drop by drop.

Do not use this method at the rosette! it will discolor the spruce.
Author:  CarlD [ Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Well, the binding kept deteriorating and it needed a neck reset, so I'm pulling it apart for that stuff. What do you think the glue is they used on Gibsons in 1972? The neck came out easily with a heat stick (does anyone want a Mr Coffee?) but there is a lot of a white glue substance in the dovetail slot and fretboard extension that doesn't scrape off.
I'm going to route the binding off. Some chipped off but my previous repairs stuck most of it on real good. I plugged the heel hole and will redrill so the MiniFlex fits tighter. I got some .05 tortoise and white binding on amazon (musiclily) and will glue together, then thin for .09 which was the old stuff's thickness. Hope it will work.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
Gibson should have been using hide glue or a yellow glue like Titebond back then. I take it no one else has worked on it since you bought it new?
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
What Chris said but I'll add Gibson was a toy factory that made guitars. They are very well known for using what they had laying around and that is why they often built in small batches of say 6 instruments because that was all that they had parts for.

If you had a spectrum Gibson would be at one extreme end and "configuration control" would be at the opposite end back then and this explains the countless examples of models that do not fit any description in the books. In our area employee guitars are common place and they can be all manner of bastardized instruments.

With all this said don't get me wrong Kalamazoo Gibson is dearly loved by this Luthier and most of the folks I hang with.

We read reports of a third glue but it's rare almost as if someone went to the hardware store because they were out of HHG or Titebond Original which is what Chris said and what we know they used too.

And Chris's question has there been prior work is a good one too which could explain this mystery glue.

The Gospels were not well made and they can really fall apart when they start to fall apart. The early 70's were a bad period for Gibson and much of the production of this era is some of the worst examples of quality from Gibson.
Author:  CarlD [ Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Gospel Binding Problem
No prior work as far as I know. I bought it in 1973. I did have a bridge reglue and setup in 1975. no other work until 2019 and that binding repair.
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