Official Luthiers Forum!

Solely owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:44 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
An old timer brought me his dad's guitar to see if there was anything I could do to make it whole again. We're not really interested in restoration, his dad had done a lot of work on this over the years himself, and if we can make it structurally sound without removing any of that "mojo" then that's what we're aiming for.

I'm trying to identify it though so I can at least figure out what it might have been originally, anyone have any experience with these old guitars?

It's ladder braced, 12 frets to the body, it has an angled slotted headstock, there's binding on the back, but not the top, it would appear to be all solid wood. There's a lot of other stuff that appears not original.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:43 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Probably made in Chicago, old Washburns like this one are pretty cool, and usually well-made. I don't think there is much info out there available in the way of technical help on them, Conor. If there is, I've never found it. I've worked on more than a few. I just did my best to respect the old parts and methods of construction.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Conor_Searl (Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:15 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:52 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am
Posts: 8
First name: DG
Last Name: SR
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
The book by Hubert Pleijsier is the definitive text on the Washburn instruments of the pre-war and wartime era although Washburn essentially died off in the early 40's for 20 or so years until Rudy Schlacher reintroduced it.
I'm not familiar with that headstock logo nor is it depicted in the Pleijsier book.
For reference, I am the former director of design and development for Washburn and would often deal with informing owners of ancient Washburn's about their instruments (referencing the Pleijsier book or examples in the Washburn collection). Needless to say, I've seen quite a lot of Washburn's over the years.
Sorry I couldn't be of further help.

Doc

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author Ol'burns for the post (total 2): gxs (Sat May 08, 2021 6:19 pm) • Chris Pile (Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:19 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:21 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
There's a Washburn book? I'll be looking for it. I am a lover of Washburn since the 80's, having owned (even now) a number of them. Is there anything in it about the other brands that Washburn made like American Conservatory?

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:40 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am
Posts: 8
First name: DG
Last Name: SR
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Chris Pile wrote:
There's a Washburn book? I'll be looking for it. I am a lover of Washburn since the 80's, having owned (even now) a number of them. Is there anything in it about the other brands that Washburn made like American Conservatory?
There are a couple but the Pleijsier is, in my opinion, the more useful for identification of the older instruments. The other (written by John Teagle) is more of a blanket of the 100+yrs of Washburn including from when Rudy reintroduced the brand.
Washburn was really under the blanket of Lyon & Healy (Washburn being the middle name of George "Washburn" Lyon) and the Pleijsier book touches ever so slightly on the other lines L&H owned but it really focuses on the Washburn brand.

Doc

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author Ol'burns for the post: Chris Pile (Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:08 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:09 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Cool. I'll be looking to add them to my library of guitar books.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Ol'burns (Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:20 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Both of them are on their way to my door....

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Ol'burns (Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:59 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:48 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2585
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Welcome to the OLF, Gerald.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:01 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am
Posts: 8
First name: DG
Last Name: SR
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Barry Daniels wrote:
Welcome to the OLF, Gerald.
Thanks Barry! Please, call me Doc...most folks do :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:40 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Is it true that Washburn's fortunes were tied up with the south during the civil war while Martin's were tied up with the north?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:18 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Never heard that...

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:02 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Someone once told me that at the music store I worked at. I figured now was as good a time as any to vet some of the trivia that's rolling around my brain.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:54 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:26 pm
Posts: 324
First name: Carl
Last Name: Dickinson
City: Forest Ranch
State: California
Zip/Postal Code: 95942
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey Conner, we're not supposed to talk about politics here beehive .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:13 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am
Posts: 8
First name: DG
Last Name: SR
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Washburn wasn't founded until 1883.

Doc

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:37 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Quote:
Hey Conner, we're not supposed to talk about politics here beehive .


WTF? You trying to be funny? If you are - that's a BIG FAIL.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 766
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Conor_Searl wrote:
Someone once told me that at the music store I worked at. I figured now was as good a time as any to vet some of the trivia that's rolling around my brain.


That's definitely not accurate. Washburn was the result of a partnership between George Washburn and Lyon and Healy and it started in Chicago. A major share of those makers like Harmony/Lyon and Healy and such was through catalog orders which frankly were not dependent upon borders or politics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:49 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am
Posts: 8
First name: DG
Last Name: SR
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
DanKirkland wrote:
Conor_Searl wrote:
Someone once told me that at the music store I worked at. I figured now was as good a time as any to vet some of the trivia that's rolling around my brain.


That's definitely not accurate. Washburn was the result of a partnership between George Washburn and Lyon and Healy and it started in Chicago. A major share of those makers like Harmony/Lyon and Healy and such was through catalog orders which frankly were not dependent upon borders or politics.

Just for clarity sake, the brand "Washburn" was solely the efforts of Lyon & Healy. Lyon & Healy was founded in 1864 by Patrick Joseph Healy and George Washburn Lyon. In 1883, after first a number of hardships (a fire which destroyed their premises in 1870 and a second time in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871) the company saw great growth and success and after the construction of a 6-story factory & warehouse, in the later part of the year, the "Washburn" brand was first used on the companies own manufactured guitars. Later followed self manufactured mandolins, zithers and banjos.

Doc



These users thanked the author Ol'burns for the post: gxs (Sat May 08, 2021 5:18 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:05 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
CarlD wrote:
Hey Conner, we're not supposed to talk about politics here beehive .


I'm Canadian. We don't have those here... idunno



These users thanked the author Conor_Searl for the post: CarlD (Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:06 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:37 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Currently enjoying Teagle's book. Good recommendation.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Ol'burns (Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:56 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4411
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Classical that had tail piece added later on

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:39 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4727
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Got the Pleijsier book today.... What a great reference!

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Ol'burns (Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:04 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:26 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 188
Location: usa
First name: george
Last Name: s
Country: usa
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Ol'burns wrote:
DanKirkland wrote:
Conor_Searl wrote:
Someone once told me that at the music store I worked at. I figured now was as good a time as any to vet some of the trivia that's rolling around my brain.


That's definitely not accurate. Washburn was the result of a partnership between George Washburn and Lyon and Healy and it started in Chicago. A major share of those makers like Harmony/Lyon and Healy and such was through catalog orders which frankly were not dependent upon borders or politics.

Just for clarity sake, the brand "Washburn" was solely the efforts of Lyon & Healy. Lyon & Healy was founded in 1864 by Patrick Joseph Healy and George Washburn Lyon. In 1883, after first a number of hardships (a fire which destroyed their premises in 1870 and a second time in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871) the company saw great growth and success and after the construction of a 6-story factory & warehouse, in the later part of the year, the "Washburn" brand was first used on the companies own manufactured guitars. Later followed self manufactured mandolins, zithers and banjos.

Doc



The relationship between Lyon & Healy gets really murky in the late teens and 1920's. It seems Regal made most of the Washburn in that period, and then J. S. Stewart, until Tonk Bros. (apparently) licensed the Washburn name from L&H, and Regal took over J. S. Stewart. The Tonk Bros. Washburns are teriffic instruments (Gibson made a few too). I think that was the peak of Chicago guitar building (late 20's - 30's)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mystery washburn
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:27 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 188
Location: usa
First name: george
Last Name: s
Country: usa
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Ol'burns wrote:
The book by Hubert Pleijsier is the definitive text on the Washburn instruments of the pre-war and wartime era although Washburn essentially died off in the early 40's for 20 or so years until Rudy Schlacher reintroduced it.
I'm not familiar with that headstock logo nor is it depicted in the Pleijsier book.
For reference, I am the former director of design and development for Washburn and would often deal with informing owners of ancient Washburn's about their instruments (referencing the Pleijsier book or examples in the Washburn collection). Needless to say, I've seen quite a lot of Washburn's over the years.
Sorry I couldn't be of further help.

Doc

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks Doc. I have the a Teagle book, I did not know about Pleijsier, I'll pick it up. I also have Bob Carlin's Regal book, that touches on the Washburn relationship. It was a pretty facinating time for Luthiers and guitar building.
Regards,
GS


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com