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spanish heel ukelele?
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10128&t=33921		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  spanish heel ukelele?
I am contemplating building ukeleles because they're becoming a bit popular in Taiwan, although I haven't built one yet.. however I have looked over the Stewmac kit instructions and it tells you to use a doweled joint. I can see there can be issues with alignment if you were slightly off...

so I was thinking perhaps I should build a ukelele with spanish heel necks instead, but since I am not too familiar with spanish heels (my acoustics are all bolt on neck), can someone give me a primer on how they're done? I know you cut slots on the side of the neck blank, then you put the side into the slot and glue it in, but do I need to cut the slot exactly as wide as the side, or do I just make a very wide slot and glue wedges into the slot to wedge the side in?
Author:  John Killin [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
I did a Spanish heel on my uke. That is the method used in the Hana Lima 'Ia plans.

http://www.hanalima.com/building_spanish.shtml

Basically you cut the slot wider than the sides and wedge it from the inside. I followed the classical guitar assembly instructions from the Cumpiano book.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Why not just do the bolt on you are used to but use one small bolt?
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Bryan Bear wrote:
Why not just do the bolt on you are used to but use one small bolt?


I've been thinking about this too, but I'll have to consider what the long term stability are, not to mention any possible issue with alignment... I need to figure out a way to drill holes for the insert on the neck, and have it align precisely with the holes in the neck block. It's really tricky too.
Author:  Nils [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
I do bolt on necks for guitars. I always have to make the holes in the heel block a little wider than they should be in theory so everything lines up right. I dont think its a big deal. Im sure it wouldnt with a uke either.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
It should be no problem for a uke, it should take almost no effort to hold the neck on. Do it however you are doing your guitars. The only issue I see is bolting it on through the tiny sound hole; figure out the tooling to tighten the bolt while you are building (not after). I would (will as I plan to do a uke soon) skip the insert in such a small heal. Consider an 8-32 hangar bolt or an allen head with wood threads. Use a dowel of whatever you use to support the insert on your guitars so you are not screwing into endgrain. How are you getting things lined up for your guitars? I don't have a good system for really precise alignment of bolt and hole (with respect to neck angle). I go with over-sized holes and let the heal surface take care of neck alignment.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Bryan Bear wrote:
It should be no problem for a uke, it should take almost no effort to hold the neck on. Do it however you are doing your guitars. The only issue I see is bolting it on through the tiny sound hole; figure out the tooling to tighten the bolt while you are building (not after). I would (will as I plan to do a uke soon) skip the insert in such a small heal. Consider an 8-32 hangar bolt or an allen head with wood threads. Use a dowel of whatever you use to support the insert on your guitars so you are not screwing into endgrain. How are you getting things lined up for your guitars? I don't have a good system for really precise alignment of bolt and hole (with respect to neck angle). I go with over-sized holes and let the heal surface take care of neck alignment.


Basically oversized holes and even ovaling the holes when they still won't line up... I can only use a hand held drill to drill the hole for the neck insert because its too long to fit in a drill press. I just hope for a better system...
Author:  Quine [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Tai Fu wrote:
Bryan Bear wrote:
It should be no problem for a uke, it should take almost no effort to hold the neck on. Do it however you are doing your guitars. The only issue I see is bolting it on through the tiny sound hole; figure out the tooling to tighten the bolt while you are building (not after). I would (will as I plan to do a uke soon) skip the insert in such a small heal. Consider an 8-32 hangar bolt or an allen head with wood threads. Use a dowel of whatever you use to support the insert on your guitars so you are not screwing into endgrain. How are you getting things lined up for your guitars? I don't have a good system for really precise alignment of bolt and hole (with respect to neck angle). I go with over-sized holes and let the heal surface take care of neck alignment.


Basically oversized holes and even ovaling the holes when they still won't line up... I can only use a hand held drill to drill the hole for the neck insert because its too long to fit in a drill press. I just hope for a better system...


I drill my holes for the inserts with a hand drill. You can make a quick easy drill jig by drilling holes in a scrap piece on the drill press. Then clamp that piece and the neck to the work bench and use it as a guide. A 1" thick guide will straighten out your drill angles
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Hey Quine, do you build your Ukes with a neck angle (positive or negative). I've not done any nylon strung instruments. . . I have a "someday" plan rattling around in the back of my brain. Kind of a jumbo tenor, but I'm not sure if I should handle the neck angle like a classical or not.

Edit: Also, are you using more than 1 bolt for a uke?
Author:  ernie [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
On tenors /sop/conc . I butt the neck up at 90 deg to the top of the uke the upper brace should be dead flat. When I lay a ruler across the fb to the bridge . I do not want any gaps.
Author:  Quine [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Bryan Bear wrote:
Hey Quine, do you build your Ukes with a neck angle (positive or negative). I've not done any nylon strung instruments. . . I have a "someday" plan rattling around in the back of my brain. Kind of a jumbo tenor, but I'm not sure if I should handle the neck angle like a classical or not.

Edit: Also, are you using more than 1 bolt for a uke?


The neck angle really depends on the body, bridge, and finger board thickness you're using.....use the angle that gets good string action with a reasonable saddle height. Best to draw it out on paper if you're not using plans
I cut a 1 degree angle in the neck and also in the body so the fingerboard extension would fit flush. I use 2 bolts in the neck...I think they were #10 size. Maybe #8
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Quine,

Thanks, that is pretty much how I have approached it on all my other builds, but I've never used nylon, so I'm not sure what reasonable action should be. It seems like the lower tension would lead to more movement of the vibrating string. On other builds where I was not sure exactly where I wanted to be, I could error on too little angle since it is easier to adjust a neck back than it is forward. I suppose I will start off with zero and or a little extra saddle height and adjust in the white. If I do a second, I'll have a better idea of where to start. If I have to increase the angle I don't mind "bending" the fretboard extension down to the soundboard as I don't imagine I would ever actually play down there.
Author:  Quine [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Hey Bryan

Glad to see another uke builder around STL. You should check out the ukulele underground forum for more building tips.

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum ... r-s-Lounge
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
I'll check them out, though I wouldn't call myself a uke builder yet. . . I have one in my mind and my 4 year old daughter will be ready for one soon. I'll probably pick your brain at Hibdon this spring (assuming you are coming). What are the chances of you bringing a uke or two?
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Is it possible to redirect a three year old thread? I went to search and this is what it brought me.
I just finished a baritone Uke that I dovetailed the neck into the body. Lots of work,lots of fitting,lots of time.
I want to build a guitar with bolt on neck. I have another bigger baritone going and I want to attach the neck bolt on. While building my clamp to attach the bridge to the last Uke I got some inserts and attached them with thumb screws. One of the fellows on here told me how to do it.
I saw the array of bolts including Allen head in HomeDepot. Thought I could use them on the second Uke to practice for the guitar buildImagethis is what I designed. Any thought?


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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
There are several threads about bolt on necks around with lots of good info make sure you check them out.

I had forgotten all about this thread. I did finally get around to making that uke. Well, sort of. I got as far as the finish and that project stalled out. It is still half French polished in my shop, I need to get back to that!

I went with a bolt on with a single bolt. After this thread but before I started the uke, I made a bolt on mandolin. My research and testing convinced me that a single bolt would be adaquate even for 8 steel strings of a mandolin. I was right, it is a couple years old and no sight of trouble. The minimal tension on an uke will be no issue. I intended to use a smaller bolt due to the small heel but I couldn't find a local source for the furniture nuts I like to use. I ended up using my standard 1/4" 20 hangar bolt and had to saw off threads from both ends. I think there are pictures around here of it somewhere.

Edit:

I knew I remembered posting a pic of that bolt on. It turns out it was in a discussion about bolt on butt joints, you should check out that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43770&hilit=Show+me+bolt
Author:  Tai Fu [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
I repaired a cheap mandolin with one bolt... to be sure I put another wood screw in it. The owner is still happy.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Yes Brian Bear I have followed that thread. I guess i do not know what a hanger bolt is.


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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Ah. It is a headless bolt with wood threads on one end and machine threads on the other. If you look at the first pic I posted on that thread you can see one that has a brass furniture nut screwed on the machine thread side. Both of these bits of hardware are readily available at home centers and hardware stores.
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Tai, a uke pulls about 40# of tension, so you can do any neck joint you want! including a glued butt joint. I use a single neck bolt, drilled with a hand drill, and no angle on the neck for my tenor and concert. They've held up well for the5 years I've been building.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
So Brian your saying just screw the wood screw end into the neck. Drill a hole in the headblock and put a nut on the machine screw end?


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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Lonnie,

Basically yes. Most people put a hardwood dowel through the heel so the wood screws are biting into something other than end grain. The wood threads get screwed into the heel. You may need to cut off some of the wood threads if the bolt is too long for your heel block. Then a matching hole is drilled through the heel block. Then the nut goes inside the body to bolt it on. I like to use the furniture hardware in my picture because it looks nicer (to my eyes) than a regular nut.

If you look at most of the heels in that other thread, you will see that you remove most of the mating surface of the heel leaving only wood on the outer perimeter of the heel. This makes fitting it to the body much easier. Once bolted, the wood on the perimeter of the heel is the only bearing surface on the body.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: spanish heel ukelele?
Thanks Briab Bear that was explained very nicely. So I'll give it a try see how it goes.


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