Official Luthiers Forum!

Tim, do you have link to your tutorial on bending 2 sides at once?

Bob, are you talking about his thread on Double Sides?  His preferred term for laminated sides, due to the negative connotation of the latter.

Here is the link, on the OLF Tutorial Page.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Bob, let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks for posting the link WaddyT.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks tim and Waddy. Man the inginuity continually shown in this forum is mindbending!!

Yeah, I just went back and read Tim's tutorial, and I have to admit I'm intrigued by it. Now I have to try it. I like the fact that I can laminate via vacuum bag, using epoxy which will shot up into the pores and fill them, and end up with a stiff side with no springback.

Tim, have you ever done three layers instead of two, using veneers thin enough so you don't have to bend in the side bender? Just curious. If you're going to go through all the trouble to get them really stiff with laminations, why not make it easier?

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Hi Don,
No I have not done that. I will warn you that you need to leave the exterior side thicker than the inner side because sanding through the outer side is a very REAL possibility! Don't ask ...

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Oh, I already made that assumption...


I could see myself doing the same thing! Stuff happens...

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] Hi Don,
No I have not done that. I will warn you that you need to leave the exterior side thicker than the inner side because sanding through the outer side is a very REAL possibility! Don't ask ... [/QUOTE]

Yes.

And something else I have found with this. You occassionally get epoxy seeping all the way through the sides on short grain thus making it impossible to sand the epoxy off the bent sides. On the outside this is ok since once you pore fill with epoxy you never see it, but on the insides.... if you don't finish the insides this is noticable.

Mahogany is especially bad for this problem.

I have recently gone to putting shellac on the outer sides of both lams before glue up. This helps, but it doesn't eliminate the problem. I am thinking about putting it on both sides before glue up, but I am not sure how the shellac will impact my glue joint.

... just thought you would like to know.

Tim, what are you doing about this problem?

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock buddy I have had trouble getting epoxy to grab on a surface that has shellac on it.  I delamination of a double side would be a pretty catastrophic thing.......

I am also wondering about weight.  I have no doubt that double sides make the stiffest rim probably available but what about the added weight?  Has any one measured a double side epoxied together and compared this to a single side with the the addition of reversed or Fox style linings? 

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars

Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the idea of putting shellac on the glue side either. I finish the inside of my guitars so it really doesn't matter, but if you don't this can be a real concern.

On the weight... I suppose it depends. My rims are definitely heavier. But... my single side rims were .06 sides so this is quite a bit more mass. but if you bend at .085 or so I don't know if there would be much difference. Maybe a little, but not a ton more.

I will tell you what. Once these rims are built and lined you simply cannot compress them either in length or across the width. There is 0 flex. It is amazing how stiff these are.

I am pretty sold on them.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I've been planning on experimenting with .02" x 1/4" wide carbon fiber
along the outer side of each lining to increase rim stiffness, using reverse
linings (got the idea from Rick, though he was laminating along the inside
of the lining). I'd love to hear any thoughts on this compared to the
double sides?

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] And something else I have found with this. You occassionally get epoxy seeping all the way through the sides on short grain thus making it impossible to sand the epoxy off the bent sides. On the outside this is ok since once you pore fill with epoxy you never see it, but on the insides.... if you don't finish the insides this is noticable.

Tim, what are you doing about this problem?[/QUOTE]


I sand the completed laminated [inner] sides (to 220) before gluing the blocks in and then just shellac the inner sides after the back is glued on. Once they are shellaced you can't see what little epoxy is left in the pores on the inside.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Yeah, that is what I am doing too.

I am not sure how I would attack this though if I wasn't shellacing the insides.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Yeah, it could be pretty splotchy looking. On the other hand you could just tell them you lined the interior with "Leopard-wood"

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com