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I have a pair of those too.  They work very well both for feeding work and holding it down.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

re: Ripping and 'splitters'

If you use a proper (partial, infeed side only) fence for ripping, you will not need the incredible inconvenience of a 'splitter'. However, to keep the legal community idle, I recommend that you use all the safety devices possible on all your tools.

John

John,

Regardless of fence and feed technique, sometimes there is stress in the wood that is relieved by the cut, the wood then squeezes the blade on the backside and is thrown at you, at spliter prevents this by keeping the cut open.

Just for fun, I Googled table saw blade height, and got a number of different answers from a height of 1 tooth above the top surface of the board, 1/4" above the surface, and another that said 1 to 1 1/2" above the surface of the piece being cut.  I understand the logic of the angle of cut of the 1 1/2" height being down into the wood which is a more efficient cutting angle and much less likely to generate kick-back than a low angle where the cutting angle is more parallel with the top of the work piece.  So apparently there is a big disparity of how much people are willing to have cut off.  Somewhere in there is a happy medium. I have always been of the school of thought that says 1 full tooth clearance is a safe height, and creates enough of a down angle to cut efficiently.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=Marc] I would say never operate a table saw unless you have had adequate instruction. It's a dangerous tool and every cut has its own hazards. If you take the extra time to set up the cut you never have to get your fingers near the blade. I like to use featherboards, zero inserts, biesemeyer aftermarket splitter (way too expensive but a great splitter), also I often use two grippers, especially for thin rips that are common in guitar making.

[/QUOTE]

I second that and add the same for a jointer. That's an incredibly quiet yet dangerous tool.

Great tip on the GRR-Ripper. Nice looking tool!

Hey Hesh, how did you edit the spelling error? I was gonna make some comment about not working in the shop drunk, but you took away my ammo!

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Marc-
Those Micro-Jig (GRRipper, Splitter) tools look good.
Thanks for the link.

John

[QUOTE=Don Williams]
I second that and add the same for a jointer. That's an incredibly quiet yet dangerous tool. [/QUOTE]
I agree, Don.
Does anybody here know if there is an aftermarket Inca style jointer guard available to replace the 'pork chop' style? the Inca guard works well...don't ask.



Cheers
John

Great thread.  Hand tools are all about being sharp.  The safe use of power tools requires knowledge, respect and focus.   There are some jobs that I enjoy doing with the stereo going -- FP is the big one.  I never use power tools with music playing or other folks in the shop -- no distractions and ten fingers.

 

 

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

You seem to be recommending that the circular saw blade should be flush
with the top surface of the wood- since most folks don't care to lose any part of their hand

Oh, for f^$# sakes... A bit of common sense goes a long way. Use some... Of course you need some blade above your work.

<shaking head>

invitation for having the work 'ride up' on the blade ////snip//// I also use push sticks (long ones)

Read my first post re: push blocks. Push sticks, especially long ones, are your biggest cause of kick/flip back. You're pushing down on the rearmost part of your owrk while the blade is trying to lift the front of it. Bad combination... Longer stick, more downforce, more bad, more danger, more stitches, fewer digits.

You guys are the best!  I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from this thread that I never even considered.........

Things from keeping walk ways and escape routes clear to the idea that mistakes don't grow back.........

I guess no more guitar building in my boxer shorts...........

I thought about how to keep some water in the shop and then it occurred to me that I have 5 gallons in there all the time in the humidifier bottle and base.

At the risk of sounding like a girly man table saws scare the crap out of me and since I have no training in their proper use I relegated mine to the garage and then gave it away.....  I seem to be able to do my own building fine with just a band saw.

Routers also scare the crap out of me but since I have been using the Williams gig for binding channels I think that I am safer then free handing it......

Mario's tip on tonking the fire extinguisher was just followed a few minutes ago - many thanks Mario!  And I have on my grocery list to get an "eye cup" from the pharmacy since I have a bathroom and sink 4' from my shop.  That used to be a local call in the old shop......

Lance's tip on not having cords all over the place to trip on is one I have to work on.  I plug my vac into each individual tool in use so I have hose across my shop floor often......  Perhaps it's time for some PVC around the perimeter of the shop.

Arnt's comments regarding thinking in advance and risk avoidance is something that I tend to do because I live alone and I know that if something happened I am up the creek......

This is great stuff guys and if your contributions here help just one person avoid a horrific injury this is all very worth it.

Don what spelling error, I didn't fix any thing, no edit capabilities here.  I know you are joking with me my friend  but I don't drink either - at all, haven't in many years.....  My jokes with the Everclear bottle in the pictures are just that - jokes.  But from reading this thread you won't see me joking about shop safety any more.  That is until James W.B. gets here, he is in town and we plan on working on some guitars with a crow bar.......  Perhaps bridge clamping with a beer truck........

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Ann Arbor Guitars

I like hesh's idea of the fire extinguisher.
Goggles and various other preventitive health measures.

I found a web site for circular saw bench accident reports here

Don't worry, there are no gory photographs...lol
Its useful to see how other people have their accidents.
Its clinical so be wary of that.

I had an accident a few years back and took some fingers off using a power tool.
I got to see lots of other people with backyard hand injuries at the hospital and the surgeon's office.

It made me wary of how easily these things can happen especially with power tools or big machines.

I know i can have an accident using hand tools.
I also know, however that I'm a klutz and don't trust myself using big powerful machines.
If i was dumb enough to do it once i could be dumb enough to do it again.
Inexperience and stupidity were 90 percent of the problem with my accident.
I won't use a table saw.
Too many backyard operators have big accidents using them.
I know that i don't know how to use one.
I don't know how to adjust one.
I know nothing about them.
I can do all the jobs i need to using handsaws and elbow grease.

Here's a url which has a link to gory pics if you MUST see them.
He says he's been using his compund mitre saw for years and never thought it would hapen to him, which is 90 percent of the problem.


accident story

So my main suggestion is safety first, be hyper aware.
Be smart, and think outside the square.
Be aware of yourself.
Be respectful of the tool and the circumstance.

Despite being painfully obvious, chances are that if you have an accident its because you didn't see it comming.
Hospitals are always full of people who didn't see it comming.

Regards,
Claire

Something I started doing a while back is being concerned about safety in the shop when you`re NOT there. I have a few family members coming and going out of my shop on a pretty regular basis, and you never know when they`re gonna have children with them.That`s when I started unplugging all equipment and flipping the circuit breaker before I leave.

If I lose a fingertip, that`s my problem, but if someone else does, it`s more problem than I think I could handle.

Coe

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

[/QUOTE]

I second that and add the same for a jointer. That's an incredibly quiet yet
dangerous tool.

Jointer , as well as other tools work best and safest when very sharp.
NEVER allow your fingers to hang over the end of your board when you're
jointing. I saw a co-worker loose some weight that way. Very messy.

Merry Christmas
Danny

I'm repeating others, but good topic.  Use your head and be careful!

The completion of my first guitar was put on hold when I ran my hand through the tablesaw at Thanksgiving a few weeks ago.  (In case you remember from my last post, I'm in Robbie's class and this had nothing to do with him, just me being stupid in my basement.  He's very safety conscious and a great teacher too.)  All it took was two seconds of stupid.  Think things through and be aware of what you're doing and why.

I'll be mostly fine, but I was VERY lucky.  The only real reason I can still count to ten instead of 6 or 8 is that my blade was low.  I don't remember where I learned that tip, but I'm sure glad I picked it up somewhere. 

I used to use "grippers" and I'm not sure I'm a fan anymore.  They do work.  No question.  However, if you forget to clean them (like me) or there's something funky about a particular board you're using, and the rubber starts slipping.  So, you set them aside because you're frustrated.  Then you push your hand straight into the blade.  I didn't think anything of it since with the gripper it isn't a concern, and I unlearned the habit of keeping my hand away from the blade.  It's not a problem with the product, but with the the sloppy behavior it allowed me to get used to.  It really could happen with any safety equipment.

I think will be using notched pushers for the foreseeable future.  I want that positive connection you get.  It can't slip. 

And not to highjack your post, but I've been really happy with the "grip-tite" magnetic feather boards.  I know  shouldn't say it out loud, but I've never had a kickback with them, even when I tried to make it happen.  They do a nice job holding the wood and their angled rollers pull it into the fence. 

Mike

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Mike Lindstrom

[QUOTE=grumpy] invitation for having the work 'ride up' on the blade ////snip//// I also use push sticks (long ones)Read my first post re: push blocks. Push sticks, especially long ones, are your biggest cause of kick/flip back. You're pushing down on the rearmost part of your owrk while the blade is trying to lift the front of it. Bad combination... Longer stick, more downforce, more bad, more danger, more stitches, fewer digits.[/QUOTE]
Mario-
I did read your post; I used to use those little blocks/pushers like you describe- with my fingers a couple of inches from the blade- not any more.

Uh, Mario- I said sticks- two hands, two sticks, one near the blade, one pushing the work...and with a proper ripping fence, it's worked for me- and I've ripped literally miles of strips for boats- some 1" or so, most 1/4"...

Different folks, different methods....
Just play safe, guys.

John

Keep the tablesaw blade completely below the top of the insert when you aren't cutting. I read a post years ago on another forum from a guy who had just lost a couple of fingers in what he called a freak accident; but it could have been avoided. He tripped and stumbled into the saw when it was off. His knee hit the On button just as he instinctively reached a hand out on to the table to break his fall. If the blade hadn't been out of the table nothing would have happened.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Wow, this is a great thread for beginners like me - I don't have anything to add but to thank you all for probably saving me some digits at some point down the line.

Oh, and saving me the cost of a tablesaw as if I was on the fence about whether I needed one before, I'm certain I can live without one now. Yes, I am a coward, but when the risk is a part of my body for the potential reward of a slightly quicker end product, I don't mind being a bit of a coward. (I'm actually even wondering whether the increased accuracy and convenience of a bandsaw is really worth it now, when I could just as easily jigsaw to remove stock and coping saw for final accuracy.)

Well, Hesh, thanks for the thread, it has certainly given me a lot of cause for thought.   

I don't know if the table saw is that dangerous, despite all the reports of accidents with them. They are probably the most common, and one of the most frequently used pieces of stationary machines in most woodworking shops (although many guitar makers do fine without one). More units, more users = more accidents.

One machine that scares the c**p out of me is the shaper; now there is one efficient finger eater!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Arnt it does sound like the table saw is one of the most dangerous tools but that is a good point that there are more of them too.

Someone on the OLF I believe posted a while back that you can tell who was a wood worker before learning to build guitars because they will always have and use a table saw.  Where many folks who started wood working with guitar building only have and use band saws.

Do you guys think there is any truth to this?  It is true in my case.

Also - drill presses and the somewhat unique attachments/tools that we use such as fly cutters and Wagner power planers.  I had an accident with both of these tools, minor but it could have been far worse.

Any comments on using Wagners and avoiding getting a bridge blank in the mouth..... like I did......  And if I am the only one here who thinks that fly cutters are extremely dangerous?

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Good comment on the Wagner "Safety" Planer. I use mine a lot, and have found that it is much safer when the cutters are sharp. If dull, they kick back and throw your work in unpredictable directions, even pulling your fingers toward the cutters, and IMO can be extermely dangerous. Like most of our tools, sharper is safer.

Tablesaw...that 7 1/4 Freud Diablo thin kerf blade is one of the best quality as well as safety tips Mario ever revealed. After installing the blade, I have only had one occasion to install a conventional 10" blade. Safe because it slices through every wood I've tried so effortlessly and is great for underpowered "toy tablesaws". Quality because the cut finish looks like it was planed!

Router Table...as Howard stated for the table saw blade, keep the bit retracted beneath the table when not in use. Better yet, just remove the bit...and unplug the router.

Routers...please unplug when installing or removing bits. Keep your work clamped and stable before routing. Move the router in the proper cutting direction.

Splinters...keep forceps handy and remove splinters ASAP to avoid infection and long term pain.

keep em coming!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

As I mentioned earlier, I teach woodworking to adults of all levels at the CT Valley School of Woodworking in Manchester, CT.  We spend a LOT of time in our intro and woodworking 1 classes on machine safety, in particular the tablesaw.  The school has been there for 12 years and we've never had an accident.  Reading Mario' posts, he could walk in and teach our tablesaw safety classes.  He's right on the money. 

There is a very good book and video by Mark Duginske on getting to know your woodworking machinery.  The book is a great reference and the video is a comical view.  He very thoroughly and accurately goes through each machine, how to tune it up, how to accurately set it, how to use it.  His bandsaw section is especially helpful.  I would recommend very strongly that if some of you are "not that familiar" with your machine that you pick up this book for christmas. 

Here's a link: http://books.google.com/books?id=z-pzOU6R_xoC&printsec=f rontcover&dq=inauthor:Mark+inauthor:DUGINSKE&ei=mbhr R8SCEIjAiwGN491z&sig=ul28ndvTykbXGwjMAdGS_HsCS6g

If your machines are not tuned properly, and your blades are not sharp, and you are not familiar with how to properly use it....you WILL have an accident sooner or later...

Mitch

Hi Hesh,

Those pictures of your machines and workshop are so clean ! Thats what I really wished for everday when i closed my shop. Keeping the workshop clean can safe us alot of unforeseen problems. I always off the main power supply when i leave my workshop. Many fire starts from faulty electrical appliance. Smoking is totally BANNED in and outside my workshop.

Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year!

Jeff

Good stuff JJ and Mitch!!!

Hi Jeff and you make a very good point.  It's probably true, even though you guys poke fun at me often about this, that a clean shop is perhaps safer too.  Mario brought up a saw dust fires, Mitch brought up rags that may have been used for solvents, and then there is the issue of toxic dust as well.

Perhaps step one in assessing your shop for safety is cleaning the place?

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Ann Arbor Guitars

[QUOTE=Arnt] I don't know if the table saw is that dangerous, despite all the reports of accidents with them. They are probably the most common, and one of the most frequently used pieces of stationary machines in most woodworking shops (although many guitar makers do fine without one). More units, more users = more accidents.

One machine that scares the c**p out of me is the shaper; now there is one efficient finger eater![/QUOTE]

Table saw will take fingers. Shaper will take your hand. I won't use a shaper, it's strictly a tool for a professional cabinet maker in my opinion. I'll stick with a router table.

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] Keep the tablesaw blade completely below the top of the insert when you aren't cutting. [/QUOTE]

Excellent advice- not only for safety's sake, but for avoiding damage to your blade. Or, perhaps I'm the only person who ends up using the saw table as a bench and storage area from time to time...

Cheers
John