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 Post subject: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:52 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Almost a week ago; when it was really nice out; I cut a Russian Olive tree that was have dead out of a clump of brush near the phone pole. It wasn't big, but there were grape vines that made it a bear to do. I ended up getting a sore knee, and hip for a couple days from wresting with it. But my thumbs got sore too. I've never had sore thumbs.

Some is probably from scraping the Archtop back. I've done lots of scraping, and never got sore thumbs. I have a little plane that cuts like crazy, but Padauk will bite back. The opening by the blade is too wide even adding shims under the blade. You can only add so much because of the placement of the bar for the clamp.

I've done all sorts of work on all of my planes. They never work right from the box. The brass finger planes were cheap. They needed lots of work. I got laminated Japaneses blades for them. The blade for this one was a little wider, so I had to file the sides so the blade would fit. When I was using it earlier, the chips would pile up on the inside, and were hard to get out. I filed a little angle on the sides in the front, and they fly out now.

The opening on the brass plane is huge. I did file an angle in the front of it for chip clearance; but I didn't make it wider. I had to do the same with the Lie Nielsen plane. It was even taller in the front. What were they thinking? I but a smaller angle on the blades. 20 degrees or so? It doesn't cause a problem on the bevel up design, but on the others, the angle rises, and the gap in front of the blade widens. So I file in a lower angle. Then I put shims under the blade to close the gap further.

Both planes have shims under them. The shim on the brass one is just under the front of the blade. The plane is completely cutaway on the inside except for a step up for the seat of the blade on the bed, and the ridge on the back is only as wide as the ridge on the front.

I was being overly cautious, and left way too much stock around the edge. The scrapers are harder on your thumbs. These cut really well before, but now they have way less chance of tear out. I can take the small shim out from the planes, and they are still good roughers.

I have a little block plane that has an adjustable plate in the front. I don't like it. I can't get it to do anything! Even wide open it won't cut good. I'll have to work on it next.


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These users thanked the author Ken Nagy for the post (total 3): DennisK (Sat Mar 23, 2024 5:52 pm) • bcombs510 (Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:24 pm) • Kbore (Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:00 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7256
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
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Focus: Repair
Glad you showed that Ken, had the same problem on my little planes but have always just lived with it. Guess I'll take another look at them.

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These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: Kbore (Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:00 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:53 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I hope you can get them sorted out Steve. It is cool to have the ribbons of wood shooting out. Even better when they don't get stuck. I used to like to watch the glowing ribbons of molten steel shooting off hardened steel tools, using ceramic inserts on the lathe. The same effortless feeling.

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These users thanked the author Ken Nagy for the post (total 2): Kbore (Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:55 pm) • SteveSmith (Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:59 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:07 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Location: St. Charles MO
First name: Karl
Last Name: Borum
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Focus: Build
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I’ve been working on a little brass plane but I didn’t think of opening up the front or sides, I’ll give that a whirl.

I had a cheap spoke plane once that I worked on for dozens of hours over a couple of years, I just could not make it cut right. I busted it up with a hammer to save me from myself.

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These users thanked the author Kbore for the post: doncaparker (Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:38 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:41 pm 
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Kbore wrote:
I had a cheap spoke plane once that I worked on for dozens of hours over a couple of years, I just could not make it cut right. I busted it up with a hammer to save me from myself.


I love seeing my quirks in other people! That is absolutely something I would do, and look back on it as a wise move. :D



These users thanked the author doncaparker for the post: Kbore (Sat Mar 23, 2024 3:22 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:35 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 1285
Location: Calgary, Canada
Status: Amateur
Kbore wrote:
I’ve been working on a little brass plane but I didn’t think of opening up the front or sides, I’ll give that a whirl.

I had a cheap spoke plane once that I worked on for dozens of hours over a couple of years, I just could not make it cut right. I busted it up with a hammer to save me from myself.

Ha! Reminds me of a little incident on a jobsite many years ago. Felix, one of our older skilled labourers was tasked to install anchors into concrete for the base of a steel ladder. I came back after a while and observed the ladder bolted down and obviously out of level. In the trash can beside the ladder was a smashed up 2' aluminum level. Destroy the evidence! :)



These users thanked the author Darrel Friesen for the post: Kbore (Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:20 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:07 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I still didn't trust the plane on the Padauk. But I keep cutting the recurve of the arch down lower and lower, and it seems to get bulbous where it looked good! The eyes are true; it taps higher as well. The light in the basement is not good. I had one day I could work on the deck and it was warmer than the basement.

So I pulled out the little shim under it, and put a .04" shim under the blade. AHH. That's what I need. Took a cut on it and it makes nice shavings. It should be easier to do. But I'll have to go back downstairs with it; no planing Padauk on the dining room table. It never happened.

I'm going to make a new rougher for the inside, the hogger I have is too big for inside work. Maybe another curved one for finish work, and a flat one. I have stock for blades, and a hunk of Osage Orange. Will try to do ones wedged in, and not with the bar and the wedge. They seem like they might hold better. They will be more trouble.

Tried to get a shot of the blade, but all I see is Padauk pores everywhere! I had to take another. The .04" shim gives you an idea of the clearance on the end of the blade.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:27 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Here is what I want to do for a roughing plane. Something between the steel plane, and the huge one; with a curve more like the brass plane. For roughing, you really want a tighter curve that you can smooth out with the next plane up. I'll have enough of the Osage Orange left to maybe do 2 more. I have stock for blades, but I have no clue what sort of steel the small blades are. Something I found in the scrap pile at work. I think the thick blade is A2. The angle will be less, I used to make them with just clearance. Now I like 20 degrees or less.

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Yesterday after lunch (dinner) I finished the outside of the back. I smoothed up the scraping so it all looks the same. The ribbon figure is troublesome, the grain shifts. The black specks, and darker ribbons are much harder, and most of the tuning is done over them. Those are the chips from the carve, and the last scraping, and the dust through it all. The filter is 3 feet or so from where I work, and I have it on high. I vacuumed it off now.

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It's Easter morning. Or maybe it is next Sunday or Monday. Every day is the same to me. The guitar back is the shot on the bench, but every day I have a new post come up on my blog; and that is my what's on my bench. Writing the blog is where I spend most of my time. Doing translations from languages that I don't know. Writing whatever comes to mind (that's why my posts are what they are). Sometimes they go fast. Sometimes they take 3 days. I'm not religious. I NEVER talk about doctrine, rituals, or church stuff. I love everyone, not just those who think like me. How boring would it be if everyone thought like you. Then, what if you got tired of them?

Anyway, this is the post of the day. It is a Psalm, but when I got done with it, it had a different take on almost everything and seems to fit to Easter. Many words have more than one meaning. Chose different ones, and it can be nonsense, or surprising.

The highlight of my day is to read the new post live; maybe do some edits, (I don't have a proofreader!), and then sing along to the song of the day with a big grin on my face. Today's song is a good one. A big grin day.

Enjoy if you want, or just don't read it. It's just what I like to do.


https://kensdevotional.blogspot.com/202 ... anged.html


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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 2971
First name: Don
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State: West Virginia
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Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
One does not hear mention of the cockatrice every day, Ken! Thanks for sharing. Not that the cockatrice is the point; it just caught my eye. Happy Easter!


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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:51 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'm not sure that the Osage Orange chunk is wide enough. I could make it work with the blade that I have; but using a wedge, without a pin I'd probably lose some width on the blade. I don't really think 1" wide cut, or 1 1/4" wide cut would be much difference. TheThe block is 1 3/4" and the blade is 1 1/4". I drew it up yesterday, while looking as some plane build blogs and videos. I think with sketches.

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It could work, and I wouldn't have to/want to but a wedge of harder wood in front of the mouth. If I use the cherry, maple or sycamore piece that I found in the scrap bin at work; from under the steel bars; I might want something harder there.

The cherry block is about the right height; probably too wide, but that's better than too narrow. It would be easier to cut; but then It might need a Katalox or something piece(s) cut in, to hold up to roughing wood harder than the plane itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:25 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well.
Nix the Osage Orange.
That stuff is brutal!
1.0 sg.
Doesn't like planes, and barely gives in to files and scrapers.
I just wanted to smooth up the side, and see what was under the oxidation.
Looks nice.
You need a Bridgeport to make a plane from it.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:48 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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doncaparker wrote:
One does not hear mention of the cockatrice every day, Ken! Thanks for sharing. Not that the cockatrice is the point; it just caught my eye. Happy Easter!


I was once bitten by a basilisk, second cousin of the cockatrice, and yes - it nearly killed me! gaah

Using the Osage to make a sole for the cherry body might be the best of both worlds - less aggravation than making an Osage bodied plane, but with a harder wearing sole than a cherry bodied plane.

P.S. - Another name for the basilisk is the Jesus lizard (it likes to walk on water bliss )



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: Ken Nagy (Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:52 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:12 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I think that I will go that route Clay. My big rougher is Cherry with a white Katalox sole. I think that is what it is. It is very hard, and light colored.

That one is a glued up plane; pretty easy to make. I was thinking of making a chiseled one, but the sole idea sounds a lot easier. Thanks.

I would change it to have a tapered wedge, and not a wedge with a pin and a screw. I think I'll grind some taper on the sides of the blade too. That way the blade could be snug on its own. And it won't fall out the bottom! The blade is pretty short, but that was the size of the chunk of A9 that was going into the scrap. It IS 7/32" thick though. I can still make the plane tall enough to be comfortable to use.

I haven't been bitten by snakes. I've only seen Garter snakes here, the neighbor said that he saw a Michigan rattler (Massa something?) near the creek, but I haven't seen one. I don't think they are much bigger than a Garter.

Once a Jehovah Witness came by the house. I answered the door, and she looked terrified. She said that there was a snake by the steps. I said that there was a whole family of them around. She turned, got in the car, and they backed out of the drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Planes Work
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:08 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
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Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well. the plane with the Osage sole works, and isn't too bad. I roughed out the Padauk back with it, but it doesn't go as deep as I'd like. I found that the back is still 1" high. It was a 1" board, joined and planed flat. Shaped and smoothed to where the tap tone was the same as the belly; and it is still 1". 25.8 mm.

But the real winner is the Lie Nielsen squirreltail. That one beats all. I know that Stewmac has a Benedetto palm plane, but it is out of stock. Lie Nielsen apparently doesn't even make this wonderful plane anymore. The Benedetto looks VERY curved. It also has a HUGE throat. Not very appealing.

So outside of a chance find at a sale, or eBay, you have to make them, and tweak them in.

I'm still 9mm thick now!

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