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| Snare drum sound? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54169 |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Mon May 24, 2021 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Snare drum sound? |
I started playing my guitar today, and I heard a strange sound at the end of a note, like a snare drum. VERY quiet, and dies off fast, but there. What's up? It seems like the top frets are too low on the bass side. Is that forwardbow? Can find the sheet saying which way to turn the truss rod! I think it is opppsite. Forward for back? Is that what I have? It's been fine for a year and a half. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Mon May 24, 2021 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Could be back of string laying on the frets, barely. Is it just one string at one fret? If a wound string, it can happen from a worn down winding--first try to fix is a new string. If not this, then it can get a bit more difficult. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Mon May 24, 2021 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Which way to move the truss rod? If you tighten it (righty tighty), it moves the neck in the direction toward back bow. If you loosen it it (lefty loosey), it allows the string tension to pull the neck more forward. If you have a two-way truss rod, continuing to turn it "lefty loosey" beyond its neutral position can introduce forward bow beyond what string tension alone can do. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Tue May 25, 2021 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
I checked it out this morning, I'm more of a morning guy. Didn't hear it. Then I played the high e string; f and f# do it. High frets. Just barely on the b strng playing c. I guess my fret job wasn't great. I'll have to file them down. I'll check it all over. You need so many different length straight edges for that! I just went down after writing that, and turned the truss rod to the left. it was tight. turned it until there was no tension, 1/4 turn or so. Buzz is gone. I will still file the high spot off. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu May 27, 2021 3:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Snare drum sound sounds like a loose part somewhere. It could be something as innocuous as a loose object taped to the guitar, placed onto the guitar (the entire guitar vibrates when you play it after all), to something more serious like loose brace, cracks, or loose frets (frets that is loose in the slot and not held firm for whatever reason, due to the slot being too wide or something). I use wood glue not to glue the frets in but to provide some support to the frets to prevent it from popping up. Or it could even be truss rod rattle. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Thu May 27, 2021 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Tai, When I played it in the morning, I heard it at first, but louder. It was my nails on the strings. I guess they are longer than I think. I don't think that was it the night before; it was more of a decay sound. I had that when I first tired a new bridge, it seems that they like a straight cutoff. I'll look at the nut and bridge area too. Thanks. Hah! I undid the cover for the truss rod because the strings seemed high. Was going to check them, and see if they needed to be moved. They are 3mm and 2.5mm on the E strings. Fairly light nylgut, and wound over string strings, so maybe that's fine; but it just feels so high! Maybe it was the cover under the strings going to the pegs? The frets were still high. I'll get to that today maybe. Loosening the truss rod eliminated the problem, but they are still high. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu May 27, 2021 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Oh and one more thing, if you are using those sealed die cast Schaller style tuners... make sure the nut is TIGHTENED!! A lot of unexplained buzzing comes from that washer buzzing against the loose nut. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri May 28, 2021 3:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
One common thing Ken in the commercial world that can sound like you describe is when a client breaks a string and it breaks near the string ball and the ball and string end is still in the guitar. It can vibrate to beat the band and this has been the source of this kind of complaint countless times in my world. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sat May 29, 2021 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
I just remembered that I had a similar sound on the little baroque I made. I haven't played in in a long time because I still haven't got the bridge to stay on. It was a loose brace. I don't think it had finish yet, and I managed to pull the binding up, and squeeze some glue in. Worked. I could tell that was on the edge. This was definitely by the nut. The idea of loose braces with bound up sides on guitars just doesn't seem right to me. People like bolt on necks, for adjustment, and easy repair, but loose braces seem almost impossible to repair. On a violin, you could just pop it off, fix it, and glue it back down. Even with the rosette out of the sound hole of the baroque, I couldn't get my hand in there to do anything! Hesh, Besides the buzzing, do the players notice the string going flat a lot? The pegs hold them that tight? |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun May 30, 2021 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Ken Nagy wrote: I just remembered that I had a similar sound on the little baroque I made. I haven't played in in a long time because I still haven't got the bridge to stay on. It was a loose brace. I don't think it had finish yet, and I managed to pull the binding up, and squeeze some glue in. Worked. I could tell that was on the edge. This was definitely by the nut. The idea of loose braces with bound up sides on guitars just doesn't seem right to me. People like bolt on necks, for adjustment, and easy repair, but loose braces seem almost impossible to repair. On a violin, you could just pop it off, fix it, and glue it back down. Even with the rosette out of the sound hole of the baroque, I couldn't get my hand in there to do anything! Hesh, Besides the buzzing, do the players notice the string going flat a lot? The pegs hold them that tight? Not sure I understand the question Ken want to be more specific please? Noticing the string going flat? |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sun May 30, 2021 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Sure Hesh; If the ball broke off, wouldn't the string want to slide up the pin hole, and get flat as it is played, and vibrates? Are the strings really that tight in the hole? I've never had a flat top. I just have an arch top, and a tied on baroque, and an old classical. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sun May 30, 2021 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Snare drum sound? |
Ken Nagy wrote: I've never had a flat top. I think that's clear from the question. If a ball end breaks off a string on a flat top guitar, the string flies out of the hole, and the ball end stays inside the guitar to rattle around. String tension on a flat top, steel string guitar is pretty high. I don't see how any string pin could be tight enough to keep a string without a ball end from flying out. But also, if you build bridges the way Hesh recommends (and which is right, by the way), there is a notch for the string in the bridge, and this is separate from (but adjacent to) the hole into which the ball end and string pin go. This forces the ball end to register against the bridge plate, instead of trying to creep up and out of the string hole. So, if a ball end were to break off, the string pin would not be holding onto the string at all, if you built the bridge the right way. |
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