Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:53 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:22 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1091
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I started playing my guitar today, and I heard a strange sound at the end of a note, like a snare drum. VERY quiet, and dies off fast, but there. What's up? It seems like the top frets are too low on the bass side. Is that forwardbow? Can find the sheet saying which way to turn the truss rod! I think it is opppsite. Forward for back?
Is that what I have? It's been fine for a year and a half.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:01 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1574
Location: United States
Could be back of string laying on the frets, barely. Is it just one string at one fret? If a wound string, it can happen from a worn down winding--first try to fix is a new string. If not this, then it can get a bit more difficult.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:44 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2422
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
Which way to move the truss rod? If you tighten it (righty tighty), it moves the neck in the direction toward back bow. If you loosen it it (lefty loosey), it allows the string tension to pull the neck more forward. If you have a two-way truss rod, continuing to turn it "lefty loosey" beyond its neutral position can introduce forward bow beyond what string tension alone can do.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:17 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1091
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I checked it out this morning, I'm more of a morning guy. Didn't hear it. Then I played the high e string; f and f# do it. High frets. Just barely on the b strng playing c. I guess my fret job wasn't great. I'll have to file them down. I'll check it all over. You need so many different length straight edges for that!

I just went down after writing that, and turned the truss rod to the left. it was tight. turned it until there was no tension, 1/4 turn or so. Buzz is gone. I will still file the high spot off.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 3:42 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: Taiwan
First name: Tai
Last Name: Fu
City: Taipei
Country: Taiwan
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Snare drum sound sounds like a loose part somewhere. It could be something as innocuous as a loose object taped to the guitar, placed onto the guitar (the entire guitar vibrates when you play it after all), to something more serious like loose brace, cracks, or loose frets (frets that is loose in the slot and not held firm for whatever reason, due to the slot being too wide or something). I use wood glue not to glue the frets in but to provide some support to the frets to prevent it from popping up.

Or it could even be truss rod rattle.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 8:53 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1091
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Tai, When I played it in the morning, I heard it at first, but louder. It was my nails on the strings. I guess they are longer than I think. I don't think that was it the night before; it was more of a decay sound. I had that when I first tired a new bridge, it seems that they like a straight cutoff. I'll look at the nut and bridge area too. Thanks.
Hah! I undid the cover for the truss rod because the strings seemed high. Was going to check them, and see if they needed to be moved. They are 3mm and 2.5mm on the E strings. Fairly light nylgut, and wound over string strings, so maybe that's fine; but it just feels so high!
Maybe it was the cover under the strings going to the pegs?
The frets were still high. I'll get to that today maybe. Loosening the truss rod eliminated the problem, but they are still high.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 8:57 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: Taiwan
First name: Tai
Last Name: Fu
City: Taipei
Country: Taiwan
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Oh and one more thing, if you are using those sealed die cast Schaller style tuners... make sure the nut is TIGHTENED!!

A lot of unexplained buzzing comes from that washer buzzing against the loose nut.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 3:40 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
One common thing Ken in the commercial world that can sound like you describe is when a client breaks a string and it breaks near the string ball and the ball and string end is still in the guitar. It can vibrate to beat the band and this has been the source of this kind of complaint countless times in my world.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:12 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1091
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I just remembered that I had a similar sound on the little baroque I made. I haven't played in in a long time because I still haven't got the bridge to stay on. It was a loose brace. I don't think it had finish yet, and I managed to pull the binding up, and squeeze some glue in. Worked. I could tell that was on the edge. This was definitely by the nut.

The idea of loose braces with bound up sides on guitars just doesn't seem right to me. People like bolt on necks, for adjustment, and easy repair, but loose braces seem almost impossible to repair. On a violin, you could just pop it off, fix it, and glue it back down. Even with the rosette out of the sound hole of the baroque, I couldn't get my hand in there to do anything!

Hesh, Besides the buzzing, do the players notice the string going flat a lot? The pegs hold them that tight?

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:10 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Ken Nagy wrote:
I just remembered that I had a similar sound on the little baroque I made. I haven't played in in a long time because I still haven't got the bridge to stay on. It was a loose brace. I don't think it had finish yet, and I managed to pull the binding up, and squeeze some glue in. Worked. I could tell that was on the edge. This was definitely by the nut.

The idea of loose braces with bound up sides on guitars just doesn't seem right to me. People like bolt on necks, for adjustment, and easy repair, but loose braces seem almost impossible to repair. On a violin, you could just pop it off, fix it, and glue it back down. Even with the rosette out of the sound hole of the baroque, I couldn't get my hand in there to do anything!

Hesh, Besides the buzzing, do the players notice the string going flat a lot? The pegs hold them that tight?


Not sure I understand the question Ken want to be more specific please? Noticing the string going flat?

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:42 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1091
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Sure Hesh;

If the ball broke off, wouldn't the string want to slide up the pin hole, and get flat as it is played, and vibrates? Are the strings really that tight in the hole?

I've never had a flat top. I just have an arch top, and a tied on baroque, and an old classical.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Snare drum sound?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 1:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 2953
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Ken Nagy wrote:
I've never had a flat top.


I think that's clear from the question. If a ball end breaks off a string on a flat top guitar, the string flies out of the hole, and the ball end stays inside the guitar to rattle around. String tension on a flat top, steel string guitar is pretty high. I don't see how any string pin could be tight enough to keep a string without a ball end from flying out.

But also, if you build bridges the way Hesh recommends (and which is right, by the way), there is a notch for the string in the bridge, and this is separate from (but adjacent to) the hole into which the ball end and string pin go. This forces the ball end to register against the bridge plate, instead of trying to creep up and out of the string hole. So, if a ball end were to break off, the string pin would not be holding onto the string at all, if you built the bridge the right way.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com