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| Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51334 |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I've got the home made all thread and wing nut model but it's such a pain to adjust for different heights. Looking at my Irwin Quik Grips and how easy they adjust, and would love that kind of adjustment for my Go Bar Deck but seems too complicated to adapt. Any useful designs out there? Googled but found nothing really useful. Thanks (I would use the search feature of this forum but I've only been using computers for 30 years and can't figure out how to get a useful result) |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I have two different lengths of rod which give one step of height difference, then I block up the back or top with a piece of mdf or whatever to give a larger step in height if I want it all over the unit. Dave |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I just use different lengths (and diameters) of go-bars. More than one way to skin a feline. |
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| Author: | Hans Mattes [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Like yours, my go-bar deck is allthread-and-wingnuts (mine comes down from the ceiling toward the workbench). To make the spacing quickly adjustable, I cut four pieces of 1" PVC pipe to a length similar to the thickness (depth?) of a typical guitar (~4") and sliced the side of each piece open by a bit more than the diameter of the allthread. When I'm using the deck for gluing braces to a guitar top or back, the top of the go-bar deck is lower, so I put the PVC pipe pieces between the deck top and a washer/wingnut. When I'm gluing a guitar top or back to the sides, I raise the go-bar top by moving the pieces of PVC pipe below the top (and above another washer/wingnut). This proves to be far less tedious than spinning all those wing nuts. The exact deck spacing isn't critical; the force of my go-bars (made from HF fiberglass rods intended to fish electrical wiring) is not affected much by how far they are bent (I measured.). As Wade says elsewhere, "I hope this makes sense." |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
VERY helpful! I do have some extra fiberglass rods that I can cut to a different length and that might work but I'm also thinking that (4) Quik grips, one on each all thread could be moved up and down fairly quickly as well - would add more adjustment as needed. I've got a Harbor Freight just down the road. Might explore that option as well. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Hans Mattes wrote: Like yours, my go-bar deck is allthread-and-wingnuts (mine comes down from the ceiling toward the workbench). To make the spacing quickly adjustable, I cut four pieces of 1" PVC pipe to a length similar to the thickness (depth?) of a typical guitar (~4") and sliced the side of each piece open by a bit more than the diameter of the allthread. When I'm using the deck for gluing braces to a guitar top or back, the top of the go-bar deck is lower, so I put the PVC pipe pieces between the deck top and a washer/wingnut. When I'm gluing a guitar top or back to the sides, I raise the go-bar top by moving the pieces of PVC pipe below the top (and above another washer/wingnut). This proves to be far less tedious than spinning all those wing nuts. The exact deck spacing isn't critical; the force of my go-bars (made from HF fiberglass rods intended to fish electrical wiring) is not affected much by how far they are bent (I measured.). As Wade says elsewhere, "I hope this makes sense." I think I can make sense of this. Sounds like there are a total of 12 washers/wingnuts? 4 for the top, 4 for a secondary position that is held down by the PVC and 4 for the bottom? I like it and it's just what I deal with as well. Flat gluing, then about 4" height for other tasks. Thanks. |
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| Author: | mountain whimsy [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Shaft collars with set screws instead of the wing nuts. I keep meaning to pick up a set.  https://www.amazon.com/Aobbmok-Solid-Steel-Plated-Collars/dp/B07BTWHXBP/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1544821113&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=3%2F8+shaft+collar&psc=1 |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I run two decks, for the same reason I own a dozen laminate trimmers. I don’t like changing a bit in the middle of a project! Two lengths of go-bars is genius. Most of the time the easy solution is sitting right there and I still can’t see it.... Cheers |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Took a couple of Quik Grips out the the GoBar just to test and they work great. Adjust the 2 wing nut heights (or not actually) and clamp. Actually only need 2, one on each opposite corner as the uplift forces aren't enough displace the top with 2 clamps. Takes no time to change heights. I'll go to HF and pick up a dedicated pair of clamps... |
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| Author: | Hans Mattes [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
LarryH: Sorry for the poor explanation -- here's the photo I should have taken and included. My bad. Including the connection to the 2X4 that is parallel to the ceiling (the edge of the 2x4 is at the top of the pic), each allthread has 6 washers, two nuts, a lockwasher, and two wingnuts. (There's a washer and a nut on the top of the 2x4.) I took one of the slit PVC spacers off its allthread and laid it on its side to show what it looks like. When I first made the spacers, I wasn't sure that they were strong/robust enough. I've used them with over 200 pounds of clamping pressure (5 lbs. on each of 40 go-bars) and I've not had an issue. YMMV. To adjust the deck, I loosen the upper wing nuts, reposition plywood and the spacers, and tighten the wingnuts a bit against their lockwashers. Not a precision machine, but it works well -- and quick. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I just have several thicknesses of hard foam insulation that I set in the bottom New username, same ole Pat Mac |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Not an option since "Pony Clamps" went out of business. Mine uses the pony sliding part of the pipe clamp, 3/4" pipe infinitely adjustable. I have several lengths, and types of go-bars and still adjust the top of the go-bar deck. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Thought I replied with a thank you Hans but it's not here. Really like your idea/design and will make time to implement something like it (probably with some wooden blocks) in the future. In the mean time 4 Quik Grips from HF @ $2.99 each works really well but I'm not sure it's a permanent solution. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
There is no need to make a deck that adjusts - use go bars that adjust. It puzzles me greatly why everyone just doesn't use spring tension curtain rods for go-bar rods. They are cheap, adjust in length and pressure set point easily, install straight up and down so there is zero sideways pressure on the thing being glued and they come with nice rubber ends. You can't beat them for this particular job. Pat |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
A 4" platform that drops into the deck and a few 2' x 2' sheets of MDF with the corners clipped address any adjustment issues for us. For bracing, the platform and one 18mm MDF spacer is used, while for closing the body, the platform is pulled. For shallower or deeper bodies, spacers are added or pulled. The platform does double duty as a work platform on the bench for inlay and other tasks where detail work like inlay is done. Re: spring bars versus go-bars...both must be installed vertically (the tips of the go-bar aligned vertically; the spring bar shaft aligned vertically) to avoid side loads...the line of action on both is through the tips. Titebond users will need to be more careful about that alignment than fish or hide users, with those glues tacking up faster and being less likely to slip and slide until the glue line is thinned. The other consideration is in how the bars apply force...go-bar force will be relatively constant for the sort of deflections we use when bar deflection stays between about 1" and 4" or so, while a spring bar's applied force will be proportional to the amount of spring compression and the stiffness of the spring (the spring constant). A spring bar compressed 1" from an unloaded condition will exert about half the force of that same bar compressed 2", so some thought should be given to total applied force and the area over which it is applied to avoid dimpling or denting the work. Finally, getting consistent glue line pressure depends on getting either go-bars or spring bars close enough together to create overlapping pressure fields...usually not much of an issue for the X brace or other taller braces, but a 1/4" tall brace would need a bar every half inch along the length of the brace to get uniform clamping pressure, while for closing a body using a 1/8" caul, every 3/8" or so is desirable. A full top bracing glue-up - even without the bridge plate going in at the same time - may consume 60-80 bars, and we often use 90+ bars when closing a body to assure a uniformly thin glue line. It's worth considering the cost (time and material) of producing that many bars of whatever type are being used, as well as what the closest spacing that can be achieved with that bar design in normal use. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Like Pat, I use adjustable curtain rods. Glue braces, bars, backs and even neck lamination with these, without having to adjust deck height. Makes it real easy. They’re cheap on eBay. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
Got me curious. 5,930 different adjustable curtain rods on E-Bay. Should I buy the ones with the pretty birds on the end?  Or which? And how would one use them? How many? Sorry for being so dense but the simple answers are not that easy for the slow among us to interpret...https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... s&_sacat=0 |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I made spring loaded Go Bars gives me approx 12 lbs of down pressure at every point. Made from Fiber Glass rod and tubes and springs from msc Attachment: Spring Loaded go bars.jpg
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I’ve never understood taking time to make and adjust a go-bar deck. My first “deck” was a bench top and the ceiling above with doubled up plywood. I just found 3/4” maple flooring and ripped 1/4” strips for the go-bars. I made two different lengths of bars for that deck. My new deck I use fibreglass rods (the orange driveway markers from homedepot) Like Pat, I just use a spacer (the white plywood below the radius dish in the picture) to raise my gluing surface as needed. Took 15 mins to make and 10 seconds every time I need to change the height...  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
One can buy a lot of spring loaded curtain rods sooo cheep on evil bay. I spent a lot of $$ on the driveway fiberglass rods from Lowes . but prefer the curtain rods. since I use mostly fish glue on our bracing , works for us , Your mileage and results may vary . Consult your local luthier |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
What's the pressure on the curtain rods? |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
meddlingfool wrote: What's the pressure on the curtain rods? I haven't tried them, but Woodie's commentary that the pressure would vary depending on the compression of the spring seems logical.New username, same Pat Mac |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
F=KX. Force is a function of the spring constant and how much the spring is compressed. More compression = more force. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I/ve never measured the pressure needed to glue down a brace using the curtain rods . I just eyeball it to make sure , that there are no gaps whatsover , and put in as many rods as needed on the brace. I/ve had 1 or 2 that I missed so, reheated, an added more fish glue and reclamped with more rods, to hold the radiused brace down. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Quick Adjust Go-Bar Deck? |
I have used both wood sticks and fiberglass rods on my go bar deck but don't see any reason why curtain rods wouldn't work too. Like most guitar-making tasks there's more than one way to get the job done. |
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