| Official Luthiers Forum! https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Odd Hide Glue issue https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48097 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | DanKirkland [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Odd Hide Glue issue |
I was mixing up a 1oz bit of hide glue for a repair. I noticed that the water did not absorb immediately into the dry glue but instead just floated on top of the granules for a good 2-4 hours. Previously in this same bag I could put in the water and within about 15 minutes it came out as it should. I've double checked my measurements and they are the exact same as before. Also I'm noticing that this batch when heated has an extremely thin consistency to it. Almost to the point of water even at 120' as opposed to 145. This has happened twice with two batches from this bag of granules one of which I cut the water content down to almost half of what was normally used, it still came out watery with none of the honey like consistency I'm used to. I have exposed the granules to a bit of heat due to bringing them to my work back and forth in the hot car but never for extended periods. Any thoughts? Has the dry glue gone bad? |
|
| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Do you store the granules in a ziplock bag? If not, could they be taking in moisture? Alex |
|
| Author: | DanKirkland [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Its the 192 gram strength that LMI sells. I keep it in the little plastic bin they ship it in with the screw on lid So its possible if there's a hole. Those bins are pretty tough though I noticed I used bag when describing the storage in the op. My phone keeps autocorrecting batch to bag and I didn't catch it. |
|
| Author: | Cush [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Were the granules fully dissolved after the mix was heated? If the mix is thin could there be too much water? If there was water enough to fully cover the granules when mixed that sounds like possibly too much water. I use 1 part dry glue to 1.8 parts water by weight. What was your mix ratio? |
|
| Author: | DanKirkland [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Cush wrote: Were the granules fully dissolved after the mix was heated? If the mix is thin could there be too much water? If there was water enough to fully cover the granules when mixed that sounds like possibly too much water. I use 1 part dry glue to 1.8 parts water by weight. What was your mix ratio? 1 part glue to 1.8 water by weight. I had first thought that there was too much water, but when I cut the water content down to almost half, I still got an overly watery consistency. And yes the granules did fully dissolve, the odd part was that the consistency was like water even at a lower 120F |
|
| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
I thought it was supposed to be equal weight water and glue. Although I never actually measure it. Just fill the bottle with glue, and then fill with water to slightly above the glue level. After half an hour or so to absorb the water, heat it up, squeeze out a bit and see how firmly it gels, and add a small amount more water until it's just right. |
|
| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
I started with 1 glue to 1.8 water also which seemed to thin. Now I do 1 to 1 and it actually does still seem too thin. It's only my first batch fron lmi, so nothing to compare it to though. ... |
|
| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
The LMI containers are indeed pretty stout and we are using LMI HHG from around 6 years ago now with no issues ever. Your mix ratio is what I do too and spot on. Are you sure that you used water and not Johnny Walker Black?  What is the container that you are mixing in and could it be reacting with something? We use glass baby food jars. |
|
| Author: | Woodie G [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Goodness...that sounds as though it's time to purchase some new glue and think about storing it in a clean, new, tightly closed and properly labeled quart or gallon paint can with some gel silica sachets to handle any excess moisture that might creep in. You might consider adding a 'bake and dry' cycle for the sachets (if they can be dried and used again...check the directions...most can) to the shop maintenance schedule to avoid moisture-related issues. |
|
| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Another thing to try is the "string test". Put some glue on your fingers and press them together and pull them apart periodically until the glue starts to dry and get sticky, and see if it forms a zillion tiny threads of glue between your fingers when pulled apart. If it does, then it's probably still good and just overwatered. I have a plastic squeeze bottle of LMI hide glue that's been fully hydrated and unrefrigerated for years and was still fine last time I checked (it's just for research... I don't actually use it). Unless the glue was attacked by fungus, I have a hard time believing that it would go bad. Although granules do have a lot more surface area than glue in a bottle, so they are more vulnerable if they do get moisturized. That said, a new tub of glue costs a lot less than fixing the result of bad glue, so you might as well bin it to be on the safe side. |
|
| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
How does it smell? |
|
| Author: | Cush [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
The slow absorption of water by the dry glue makes me think your glue may be the cause of the trouble. The most recent jar of glue that I have from LMI ( 2 months old ) absorbs water within a few minutes and has the consistency of maple syrup when heated. |
|
| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
I don't have much experience with HHG, but could it be the water? Do you all use distilled water to make your HHG? Alex |
|
| Author: | DanKirkland [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
Alex Kleon wrote: I don't have much experience with HHG, but could it be the water? Do you all use distilled water to make your HHG? Alex I've used both tap and distilled and not noticed any difference, some here with more experience might have more to offer on the issue though. I found the problem. There was a tiny hairline crack that had developed in the cap of my container, so apparently moisture had been sneaking it's way in there. I don't know how it happened (had to be a pretty hard hit or something) but thanks to you all for all the possible solutions. But now I know, check and double check all your containers. I'm off to order more glue |
|
| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
That makes sense because the containers that it comes in from LMI have served us very well over many years with no unnatural acts required to store the stuff. We need to be reminded from time to time that one of the beauties of HHG is it's simplicity. It's easy to use, mix, store, etc. and that's one of the reasons why f*ctories have been slathering it on all manner of things for over a century now. It does have some basic requirements such as being hygroscopic but once we are mindful of these things you can even pee in the pot I'm told....  Don't expect a toot from me on this one...
|
|
| Author: | Woodie G [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Odd Hide Glue issue |
I can recommend The Olde Cabinet Shop as a source for high clarity 192g and 315g Milligan & Higgins hide glue for those that do not buy in quantities large enough for a direct order from the manufacturer (50# drum is minimum order). We never store in anything but airtight containers meant for indefinite liquid storage - we've had several plastic poly containers split as yours did, so use new, clean 5 gallon gasketed paint pails (30 lbs of dry glue), and metal gallon paint cans (6 pounds of dry glue). Just because containers and container seals may fail, we use silica gel desiccant sachets in both styles of containers and an telltale indicator strip for long term storage which will show moisture contamination in excess of what the sachets can absorb. Both silica gel sachets and storage indicator strips are available from Amazon in a range of sizes and configurations. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|