Official Luthiers Forum!

I've started working on an archtop, that is a cs-336. I am starting out with a 5/8" maple top and I plan to carve the inside as well as the outside. So, I'm trying to figure out what tools use. Has anyone tried the Lee Valley squirrel-tail palm plane?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.a ... at=1,41182

I'm looking for something in my price range and it seemed like a possibity. Any other suggestions for tools to carve an archtop would be welcomed...

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

There are lots of ways to do this. I start by developing a contour map of the outside arch, and use a drill press planer to remove most of the waste, working in 2mm steps. From there I finish up with gouges, arch planes of various sizes, and a hard scraper. Once the outside is done I drill out as much wood as I can from the inside, using a stop that stands up from the table and setting the depth gauge to leave the thickness I want. I do this in two stages, starting with the plate very thick (say, 7-9mm) and cleaning up with a gouge and arch planes, and then running the drill closer to the final thickness.

Jim D'Aquisto used to do it the other way, I believe, carving the inside first, and then thicknessing from the outside. Some makers use some pretty scary power tools to remove wood in a hurry. One is a 'Lancelot': a length of saw chain around a disk that mounts into a body grinder. Others actually use small chain saws, with short bars and the type of chain that was designed for carving bears out of logs. Carving machines are also popular. A lot depends on how many you plan on making and how bold you are.

I've used a course 36 grit sanding disk on an angle grinder with success, it seems to me it's much safer than the Lancelot and it removes wood in a hurry.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Alan, your approach is what I was planning. 2mm steps is good info, thanks. I know that aggressive power tools can get you in trouble in a hurry. Jim, your suggestion is the same technique that is in Robbie O'Brien's online class on a les paul type guitar top. Seems to be a reasonable technique. The lancelot sounds dicey to me...

I didn't know if there was a small round bottom plane that might be useful...

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Terracing the arch with a router jig after outlining the contours and following with a die grinder and 36G flap sander as mentioned.
Followed by planes, scrapers and air sanders.

Concavity with the drill technique hollowing out with the die grinder, air sander, planes and scrapers.

It is REALLY REALLY messy. I do it outside in good weather.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I can't add much to what Alan wrote. I'm not on a production schedule and I'd a lot rather listen to my plane make shavings than listen to my Saf-T-Planer throw chips all over me. That's just me, but I highly recommend the experience.

I was never satisdied with the Safe-T-planet making terraces approach. I think you have to have a very large aux table perfectly set up under your drill press and some pretty impressive swing. My little bench top drill press was not up to the task.

I did like drilling as rough depth indicators and using a flap sanding disk in an angle grinder. I went with 60 grit, which was plenty aggressive enought. Finished with a cheap finger plane sharpened well and a scraper. I don't remember where I got the plane, but smaller than the Lee Valley one you are looking at.

I too did the outside first and then the inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used the stepped method with templates and a router to do a LP top( bottom pic)
I had a map for the templates so that was fairly simple, but it could be a little trial and error to produce the desired carve.
It came out amazing and sanding out the steps was very easy with an RO sander.
I am also looking to do an acoustic archtop. I think I will remove material with a forstner bit on the drill press an clean up with a chisel/gouge. I have not had great success sharpening concave/convex plane irons, ok but not great, but I can get a pretty decent edge on a gouge.
I would also like to include the bracing as part of the carve similar to the pic below, which is NOT my work.
Interested in following your progress.

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Steve

I went the ultra-inexpensive route to carve my archtops following the Benedetto book.
Planes are home-made from instructions found on the web.
Plane irons come from the cheapest putty knife I could find and usually need to be sharpened once per guitar. Both larger planes (one bedded at 25 degrees the other at 60) are curved bottom as is one of the smaller planes.

I made one of these for carving Les Pauls -- worked great. I loaned it out and never got its back, lesson learned.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

My teacher had some nice arching planes that she got through Saconni, and one of the other students had a few sets of copies made up. The Ibex planes are similar, although not as good IMO. A toothed iron is a rel help in removing material in a hurry, particularly on curly maple. With figured wood you tend to plane across the grain, rather than with it. I remove a fair amount of material with hard scrapers, particularly in the final 'tuning' stages.

I've been using 'curtate cycloid' arches for some time now. You can look up information on that on line. The biggest problem in making your first archtop is learning to see the arch, and getting a good looking one. The cycloid system is easy to do, and makes a really nice arch that also works well acoustically and structurally. Plan on spending a LOT of time hunting for bumps.

The curved squirrel tail plane is exactly what you want for an awful lot of the finish carving on a 335 type guitar, which does not have a very aggressively curved arch. Smaller finger planes are good for the tight arch around the waist of the guitar. I do the drill, knock away waste with a chisel, and carve with a plane approach, although I have some other more power-tool oriented steps in mind this time. I figure if Stradivari had an angle grinder with 36 grit flap wheels he'd would've used 'em. He used the 16th century equivalent - teen age or younger apprentices that he paid nothing...