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| Acetone when gluing EIR? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46803 |
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| Author: | quentinjazz [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Hi folks, I am building a guitar in EIR and Austrian Moonspruce. A few years ago, I built another guitar with EIR too, and at the time I had been taught that EIR is an oily wood, that requires some cleaning with acetone before gluing something on it. Do you guys always clean indian rosewood with acetone before gluing braces, etc? Is it really necessary? I glued the neck and tails blocks on the sides and I forgot to clean with acetone...  Thanks Q. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I've built 5 guitars from EIR and never wiped before gluing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I use Titebond Original --- no pre-glue prep except sanding. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I have always found that wiping with acetone brings the oils up. I concur with Rod and Ken, sanding or planing or how ever you prep your joints. I have used LMI white glue and West Systems epoxy. Great results with both. I have not tried the new LMI yellow. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
+1 to the others. Just scrape or sand. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I never have, no problems. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
meddlingfool wrote: I never have, no problems. So does that mean you "have" problems?
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| Author: | quentinjazz [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Thank you guys! I glue with Titebond, and fish glue, depending on the open time I need, so there should be no problem ! |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I wipe every joint I make with acetone before gluing. Not just to get rid of oils in EIR but it removes any trace of dust or dirt. Do I need to do it ? Not likely, but been doing it for years and not likely to change. Do what works for you. Tom |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
No wiping. Fresh planed or sanded joints glue well with titebond. Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I found that with oily woods, wiping a freshly sanded or cut surface just seems to draw more oils to the surface of the wood, so I avoid it. I do however wipe down the surface with a clean cloth, amazing how much you find comes off sometimes. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I usually wipe with a cloth just slightly moistened with DNA. Not enough to cause problems, just enough to remove surface oils, then blow the wood to remove dust. I use titebond and even when I forget to wipe with DNA it glues fine. I do the same with Cocobolo but with it I always use the wipe. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
The most important thing in any glue joint, besides it fitting well in the first place, is having a fresh, smooth, and clean surface (high surface energy, uncontaminated). That means planed, scraped, or sanded relatively recently and with all dust removed (preferably with compressed air or a dry cloth). On wood, everything you do from that stage except gluing makes things worse (solvent wipes, toothing, even waiting!). At least that's true unless you happen to have a plasma or oxygen-rich-flame surface treatment setup in your workshop... 
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I wipe with Naptha to remove MY oils from the wood before gluing. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Bob Garrish wrote: .......................................... At least that's true unless you happen to have a plasma or oxygen-rich-flame surface treatment setup in your workshop... Don't say things like that. I've got enough things on my T.A.S. list already! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I never have done that either but read about it somewhere. I remember once gluing a cocobolo board down and the next day the squeeze out was orange. I like to run a scraper over most joints before gluing and wiping with a cloth. |
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| Author: | BradHall [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I wiped some glue (Duco) off the back of my EIR build with denatured alcohol. I now have dark streaks where I wiped. I expected it to evaporate overnight, but no different this morning. Have I done something irreversible? Is it just oils? Try wiping it again with naphtha? I'm getting ready to glue my maple bindings and would like to resolve this first. Any suggestions appreciated. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
The streaks should sand off pretty easy. The solvent mixed with the RW resin and dust and created a wipe on stain. Also, seems the Duco residue has sorta sealed the wood. If you wet the area with naphtha the streaks will likely blend right in and disappear giving a pre-view of the look of the seal coat. When the naphtha evaporates the streaks may reappear. |
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| Author: | BradHall [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Thanks, the majority of the streaks did sand out. Heart rate back down! I posted on the kit builders forum, but will repeat this portion here: I did run into a glitch today. While sanding a bit more on the back a brown spot about 3/8" long suddenly came through the herringbone backstrip. I don't understand how this is possible, as the individual pieces are solid all the way through. I have some cut offs and sliced one to verify. Right now the only fix I can come up with is to remove a thin slice and fill it with another new piece. Will be a challenge matching up the chevrons, but should be mostly invisible when done. I'm open to any alternative fix any of you can offer. Now I'm thinking I may have created a penetrating stain that discolored the backstrip. Only the one small spot though. What do you think? Upon further examination, I probably sanded through the strip. It is right behind the neck block and felt too pronounced to be be right. I blended it in and went two strokes too far. Now I can learn how to inlay. Thanks Ken for the clue. |
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| Author: | JeffD [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I just glued up a cocobolo veneer on a headstock yesterday without wiping using TB111….and it failed completely. After one hour in clamps there was no bond whatsoever. Scraped all the glue off completely and let dry. Glued it up second time, wiped with lacquer thinner and used TB1 this time and got a good bond. Not sure if it was the TB3 glue reacting to the cocobolo, or not wiping w/ solvent first? Will have to do some further testing to verify. Funny thing is I rarely use the TB3 but just happened to use it for something right before so it was on the bench! Just thought I'd throw it out there as it may save someone a headache. JeffD |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Jeff that is interesting. I made a bunch of cocobolo bindings with b/w purfling lines just a month or so ago. Attachment: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1450572715.748140.jpg Attachment: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1450572773.226191.jpg I glued the veneers on with elmer's high heat glue (same as TB3). The prep for the cocobolo was just run through my drum sander with 80 grit. The purfling lines are well bonded to the cocobolo.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Grant Goltz [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Rod True wrote: I glued the veneers on with elmer's high heat glue (same as TB3). Elmer's anything is NOT the same as Tite Bond anything. I have always used Elmer's wood glues on cocobolo and have never had to do anything to the wood to get a good bond. Elmer's glues are obviously totally different formulations than Tite Bond. There is reason that the Elmer's worked without a problem. I, frankly, will not use Tite bond on instruments...it does not perform as well as Elmer's. Grant |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Grant, Now that is interesting! I always figured Elmers white glue-all was pretty much the same as the old LMI white. But, I really don't know. |
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| Author: | Grant Goltz [ Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
Joe Beaver wrote: Grant, Now that is interesting! I always figured Elmers white glue-all was pretty much the same as the old LMI white. But, I really don't know. No, no, no, not the white glue-all, that is not for wood. They make various yellow wood glues, of which the most common is their "Carpenter's Wood Glue". It is what I use most. It glues rosewoods without any problems, and it dries hard and crystalline, with no "cold creep". In my opinion, all of their glues are far better for our used than their Titebond counterparts. Grant |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Acetone when gluing EIR? |
I highly disagree there. Original Titebond glue is the gold standard. And wiping wood with solvent has been scientifically proven to not be effective. Lots of misinformation in this thread. |
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