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Solera material
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45287		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Solera material
Hi guys, I'm about to start my first build. Classical in the Spanish style. I'm debating whether to use birch plywood for my solera, or this really nice 2”x2” pine from home depot. The pine is nicely milled.
Can I glue the pine together to make a board? It seems it would be easier to carv than plywood....
What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance!
Raul
Author:  jshelton [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
guitarradTJ wrote:
Hi guys, I'm about to start my first build. Classical in the Spanish style. I'm debating whether to use birch plywood for my solera, or this really nice 2”x2” pine from home depot. The pine is nicely milled.
Can I glue the pine together to make a board? It seems it would be easier to carv than plywood....
What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance!
Raul

I make mine out of Spanish cedar pieces edge glued and sanded flat then glued to a 3/4" MDF backing board then screwed to another piece of 3/4" MDF. Ideally the wood you use should be cured, stable and easy to carve. If you make the solera 5/8" or so thick then glue it to something that stays flat like 3/4" MDF I suspect it will work fine. I don't like plywood for soleras.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
You can use either. Carving Birch ply isn't the easiest but it can be done. Easier would be to laminate a low grade/reject soundboard on to the ply and carve that. Varnish it after and it should last a few decades. The surface really isn't subject to wear or knocks.
I put a strengthening piece on the reverse, right down the centre to keep the Neck angle from changing. It also acts as a clamping point for my parrot vice.
I also have one from MDF but that isn't the most pleasant material to work and over time it warps. I've also fitted strengthening beams to that.
Author:  Tom West [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/sho ... adius-Dish
Any help.......??
Tom
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Tom West wrote:
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?30203-How-to-make-a-Radius-Dish
Any help.......??
Tom

thanks for the link, I kind of want to carve it out by hand with a chisel.

So maybe use the pine, then glue it to the plywood for stability? It's going to be thicker than I would like it to be, but should be stable enough, right?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
MDF works fine, but it needs to be laminated to some plywood for stability. It's not that hard to scoop it out for a dish in the lower bout, and I did that, then added spruce to raise the lower bout and scooped that out.
Here's the original- dished and laminated to 3/4" plywood
Attachment:
old solera.JPG


Here is the updated version. Just glued in over the first one. Still in use.
Attachment:
DSC03639 (Large).JPG
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
WaddyThomson wrote:
MDF works fine, but it needs to be laminated to some plywood for stability. It's not that hard to scoop it out for a dish in the lower bout, and I did that, then added spruce to raise the lower bout and scooped that out.
Here's the original- dished and laminated to 3/4" plywood
Attachment:
old solera.JPG


Here is the updated version. Just glued in over the first one. Still in use.
Attachment:
DSC03639 (Large).JPG

maybe it's the picture (I'm looking at it on my phone) but it looks like the spruce on the second picture is doming out, instead of in. Is that right?
Why did you decide to add the spruce to the original Solera?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Had to do with the Romanillos plan I was using. Raised lower bout in the solera which is then dished out. The Spruce is flush at the sound hole area then rises to about 4 mm height at the widest part of lower bout and is level around the tail. This puts a bit of taper in the top which gives a bit of additional stress when pressing in the braces. Changes the geometry, some, but still works with a bit less neck drop on the solera than the recommended 4 mm, if one tapers the fingerboard as Romanillos did in the plan. This is using Courtnall, and info I learned from kind folks who attended Romanillos' class.
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
WaddyThomson wrote:
Had to do with the Romanillos plan I was using. Raised lower bout in the solera which is then dished out. The Spruce is flush at the sound hole area then rises to about 4 mm height at the widest part of lower bout and is level around the tail. This puts a bit of taper in the top which gives a bit of additional stress when pressing in the braces. Changes the geometry, some, but still works with a bit less neck drop on the solera than the recommended 4 mm, if one tapers the fingerboard as Romanillos did in the plan. This is using Courtnall, and info I learned from kind folks who attended Romanillos' class.

I guess I'll understand a little better when I finish my first build, it all went straight over my head :grin:

I don't know the Courtnall method, but have read it's a great method. I've read the Cumpiano book and he uses a different method with a cork sheet, not actually making the dish in the solera.
I'm planning on making a 3mm deep dish and between a 3 and 4mm neck drop. I have a Cervantes Signature Hauser that I'm using as reference. It helps to have it, but it's still nerve wracking, not sure if I'm measuring correctly....
Author:  jshelton [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Michael.N. wrote:
I also have one from MDF but that isn't the most pleasant material to work and over time it warps. I've also fitted strengthening beams to that.

Odd, I've had no trouble with mdf warping and I've built many appliances and jigs with it. All of my tie-down jigs are made of mdf mostly three pieces of 3/4" glued together so they are very heavy but they have stayed flat for many years. I agree it's not a pleasant material to work with.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Yes but mine isn't 3 x 3/4" glue up, just 1 " single. MDF certainly can warp. It only takes the Neck extension to be out by 1 mm or even less and you might end up with a Neck angle problem.
Author:  wbergman [ Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
I am not sure what you mean by 2" x 2" pine. Typical 2 x 2 that I see in Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. are always wet and always twist and warp when removed from the stack and as they dry. I think that would not be the best choice. They usually are not pine, either, but that does not really matter. I have seen some reasonably priced edge glued aspen or pine boards at Lowe's that are represented as dry. They are built up from many narrow strips. Some are in specific dimensions for projects, similar to table tops or shelves and surfaced. Some come shrink wrapped, and some are just big boards in bulk. Maybe these would be OK???
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Here are some pictures of the pine, It's nice and straight. The second picture is one half of the Solera.
Once I put the 2 halves together I'm planning on gluing it to a 3/4” plywood to keep it stable....
Author:  Glenn_Aycock [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
I made a dished solera out of MDF, but I only use it for gluing braces.
Image

I followed Cumpiano's method on the solera I use for building. You can't see the cork in this pic, but you get the idea. Much easier than carving.
Image
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Glenn_Aycock wrote:
I made a dished solera out of MDF, but I only use it for gluing braces.
Image

I followed Cumpiano's method on the solera I use for building. You can't see the cork in this pic, but you get the idea. Much easier than carving.
Image

I was skeptical about controlling the dome. It seems like it's only set up for one radii.... I want to be able to control the dome a little better. But it's my first build so there you go....
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
With the combination of a good gouge and a ROS, the doming process isn't bad. If you go too far or get uneven, Bondo is your friend (first time I ever used it actually). Then you can tweak to your heart's content. To me, the process was straightforward enough that I'd do a new solera for each new plantilla and dome choice without giving it a second thought.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
Bondo? What's Bondo?

Attachment:
P1050502 (Large).JPG
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Solera material
My 1st solera was made of birch ply - I swore I'd never carve another one. Then I needed a new one for a different plantilla/doming and only had birch ply available. Again I swore never more. Now I think I'll make another solera and I only have birch ply available again. Do I notice a pattern here? Anyway, I found that doing the tough part with a chisel and finer stuff with a thick scraper with a heavy burr helped a lot. Finished with the ROS. A scraper really is your friend IMO.

Best of lucks!
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