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| Sitka/Adi generalities... https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44732 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Greetings... I haven't used much adi in my work overall. I'm wondering if there are generalities between the two that could be relied on. Is there one which would be considered to have less overtones than the other? Let's skip the whole 'depends on who/how it's made' debate and enter a mythical world of hypothetical principles, and pretend we have a magic wand the switches out the top wood on the same guitar... Which will be dryer, which will be shimmerier? Thanks.... |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Ed Realizing as you do that this is pretty subjective and since I have that get-out-of-jail-card-free now from you here's my take. Sitka - strong fundementals, moderate volume, average to less than average overtones, not as stiff.... generally speaking as say Adi. Adi - strong fundementals, moderate to higher volume, average to better than average overtones, stiffer... generally speaking than Sitka. I'll add that to my ear Adi produces a more defined note with the fundementals where to my ear Sitka produces a less defined note. Of course some of the differences are where we come in, the maker and what we can do to get someone where they wish to go regardless of top material. It's wood though so all bets are off. That one in a thousand top that Somogyi searches thorugh piles of tops for can be Sitka too. Both are excellent top woods! |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
I've got about a zillionth the experience of some forum members, but I here's my view anyway: Sitka - If good, can be shimmery and very 'pretty' sounding - more so than red IME. If bad: can lean to harsh, dry and overly fundamental. (as we've all heard in millions of overbuilt factory guitars) Adi - if good, can sound like ringing a bell in a good way, and perhaps more clear. IF bad, can be quite brash sounding, probably due to low damping. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Hesh wrote: ... That one in a thousand top that Somogyi searches thorugh piles of tops for can be Sitka too. Both are excellent top woods! I think Somogyi doesn't even use Adi, or at least in his book he talked poorly of it. I sold the books so I can't check. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Yeah I knew he preferred Sitka but did not know he didn't like Adi. He places absolutely critical importance on a VERY stiff top more so than most any other builder that I have ever talked to about it. IIRC the entire first day of his week long classes were top selection criteria making it pretty clear how much be believes in that one in a thousand super stiff top. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Never played or heard a Somogyi and likely never will, so I'm not sure if his stringent criteria would be necessary for the likes of me, or an aversion to adi if that is indeed true. We have someone asking for less overtones in a build, which is opposite our usual mandate. Focus on bass. So I'm thinking mahogany back and sides with adi top. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
I have gotten the 'too much overtones' comment on occasion, and it totally mystifies me. IMHO, if you want less overtones, pick Sitka over red spruce. But stiffness of the individual top is most important....regardless of species. Quote: IIRC the entire first day of his week long classes were top selection criteria making it pretty clear how much be believes in that one in a thousand super stiff top. Probably a third to one half of the red spruce I have cut would fall into that category. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
John Arnold wrote: Probably a third to one half of the red spruce I have cut would fall into that category. Nice! Sounds like a great stash! |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
A luthier friend of mine took a piece of sitka bracing and a piece of adi bracing (about the same size) and dropped each of them on his bench. The adi had much more ring to it than the sitka. So, I've been using adi bracing because the demonstration was pretty convincing... |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
I can understand comments about fewer overtones. Some guitars can be a bit washy. A thousand years of sustain isn't necessarily desirable for someone who strums. The move towards mahogany is likely good. It would be interesting to ask the client if they think of overtones and sustain similarly or differently. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Client is aware of the difference between sustain and overtones. The specific agenda is sustain without overtones. I'm not sure how possible that really is, as our guitars generally have quite a bit of overtones. Client already has lots of high end overtone rich guitars. Using high damping back and sides wood will help. I think using a top wood that accentuates bass response will further shift the balance, as to me overtones are a high freq function. Possibly RW fingerboard and bridge too, as those are real overtone killers IMO... |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
meddlingfool wrote: Possibly RW fingerboard and bridge too, as those are real overtone killers IMO... Compared to ebony? Not to open the can of tone worms, but I thought general luthery rule of thumb (if there was one) was that RW was less damping. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Not sure if it has anything to do with damping, but more the impedance mismatching. Either way, ebony bridges for sure give me the type of overtony (ooh! New word!) sustain I like personally. RW to my ears just goes blat blat blat. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Now that you mention it, I did swap to an ebony bridge on one guitar and it did calm down a bit. Maybe less fundamental coming through. |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
meddlingfool wrote: Client already has lots of high end overtone rich guitars. Using high damping back and sides wood will help. Yep. It sounds like Sitka and mahogany, walnut or maple would get you where you want to go. Perhaps use ladder bracing if you want it really dry, but you will get less bass response. Is this a strummer or a plucker? |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sitka/Adi generalities... |
Bass is the mandate. He strums and plucks... |
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