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Spanish cedar back bracing
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44332		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mike-p [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Spanish cedar back bracing
I'm in the early stages of a euro maple/spruce 12 fret nick lucas style and am considering cedar instead of spruce back bracing.i have prepared a set of each to the same dimensions, the cedar is significantly heavier and seems a little stiffer so as planning to reduce them a little.

I'm following a plan John Arnold gave me and am considering only tucking the top two braces to allow for more possible movement in the lower bout of the back.

any thoughts or considerations appreciated. Just to note this is build number three for me and I'm not a 'numbers and formulae' builder at the moment.
Thanks all.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
I usually tuck all my back braces, but make the lower bout braces wide and relatively flat to keep them a bit more flexible to allow for changes in relative humidity
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
I would still tuck the lower braces, but make them a bit lower at the ends. I have cut spruce braces down to around 1/16" tall without any structural issues.
It won't take much reduction in height to reduce the stiffness a lot.....remember that stiffness is proportional to the cube of the height.
Author:  johnparchem [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
Why are you considering a hardwood for your back braces? In the text you are saying cedar, but the subject says Spanish cedar (which is not a cedar). If you want the back to be free to contribute to the sound you would do better with spruce as you get the most stiffness for the mass of the braces. The guitar would smell good! I find it more like mahogany than a true cedar.
Author:  mike-p [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
Yes, I meant the Spanish cedar which is not a cedar. Thanks for the replies. I just had the sp. Cedar braces hanging around and thought they might add a bit of colour both visually and possibly tonally?
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
Lots of guitars have been built with Spanish cedar and Mahogany back braces, so carry on, but heed the advice about tucking the ends.
Tom
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
I think it might depend on what type of construction that you are doing.
An "active" back (relatively thicker top, thinner back) would probably benefit from spruce.
A "reflective" back (heavier back thinner more flexible top) would be fine with the Cedar in that it will add a little additional mass which is good.
Since I'm doing a "reflective back" type of construction (classical guitars) I use Spanish cedar for back braces.
Author:  Goodin [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
I use mahogany braces on all my bouzouki backs. Works great. I have even seen mahogany used for the upper transverse brace on the top with great results.
Author:  johnparchem [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
I also have used Spanish cedar back braces on a classical guitar, Mike in his OP mentioned not tucking the lower back braces to free up the back to move. I assumed he was trying to get an active back not a reflective back.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
All of my back braces on my classicals are Spanish Cedar. It's light, stiff, and really smells great. It also happens to go well with the Spanish Cedar back linings I use.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
WaddyThomson wrote:
All of my back braces on my classicals are Spanish Cedar. It's light, stiff, and really smells great. It also happens to go well with the Spanish Cedar back linings I use.

it can even make an indian rosewood guitar smell great!
Author:  Haans [ Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
All my back braces are laminated red spruce/BRW with a resonant back, so go ahead and do what you feel make sense. In the end, no one can tell you what will work for you. Follow your own logic and sense.
Author:  mike-p [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
Going with the Spanish cedar and mahogany back strip.looks great against the maple and I have the materials wanting to be used. I've reduced the width of the braces by around 1 . 5mm to account for the increased weight and stiffness.may I ask why I'm advised to tuck the back bracing?
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
"may I ask why I'm advised to tuck the back bracing?"

It is structurally stronger and doesn't hurt the performance of the back.
Author:  John Arnold [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
As a repairman, it doesn't take long to realize the virtue of tucked braces. I have reglued hundreds of braces that popped loose on the ends......most of which were not tucked. A little too much pressure on the outside of the guitar (accidentally or otherwise) and the stress is localized at the ends of the larger braces.
To realize the structural advantage, the tucking must be done so that there is no gap between the top of the brace and the kerfing. Leave a gap, and you have defeated the purpose entirely.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spanish cedar back bracing
John, that is one of the best explanations for the use of tucked braces I have ever read.

Thanks
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