Official Luthiers Forum!

A while back there was a discussion regarding a brand of wood glues that set very quickly to speed up assembly work. Anyone out there remember what the brand name was? I know it was pretty expensive, with several versions having varying curing times. Just for those wondering, this isn't for luthiery work!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Sorry Alex I missed that one

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I don't remember that thread either but recently here on OLF I heard of Titebond Extend which of course is the opposite of what you are talking about but relatively speaking Titebond or Elmers Carpenter or LMI White would be quicker then that

I once built a guitar almost entirely out of CA glue, talk about fast assembly. I understand that it doesn't have the properties desired for most joints on a guitar especially one where potential impact is of a concern but I just wanted to do it and it's still holding up fine after I'd guess at least 5 years.

What are you trying to glue up?

A number of regular wood glues have a recommended clamp time of 20 minutes. How fast are you looking for?

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I have a customer who spent $5k+ for granite counter tops and back splashes for their kitchen, only to realize that the cabinets are builder's junk that should have been replaced first! My plan is to replace the uppers, and reface the lowers. The cabinets are Euro style frameless. I only do face frame style with inset doors, so I need to attach face frames to the lower cabinets. I'll use some biscuits for alignment, and screw in some blocks to clamp against. I'd like to avoid a dozen or so bar clamps per cabinet for an extended length of time.
If I remember correctly, the glue set in a couple of minutes, and was around $50 a bottle.
Thinking back, it probably wasn't a topic in itself, but mentioned in regards to something else, with someone providing a web link.
I'm realizing my memory is just good enough for me to know that I can't remember stuff!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

5-minute epoxy?

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Why not thick CA and accelerator. It's great for crowns. You must use it. I think Richelieu sells large bottles.

It was like a cross between a pva and ca glue. I don't want to take the chance of getting epoxy on the cheap tile floor, that should have been replaced as well! Fussy customers.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I'm worried that a CA glue joint might fail if it takes a sharp lateral knock. Maybe wrong thinking on my part.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Ya, I hate those euro style boxes.
Face frame and inset is class cabinet.
You are wanting franklins no run no drip glue. I think it was previously sold as moulding and trim glue.
It works great for crowns or sticking.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

The $50 doesn't seem right. Maybe you want Nexabond. Saw this at the AWFS last year, seemed impressive.

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

I agree Brian. The only good thing about a Euro cabinet is that they come in a flat box, and you can fit an entire kitchen in the back of a pickup truck with beefy suspension!
I've got the Titebond no drip glue, but I'm not sure that it has the necessary strength for a structural joint. Maybe I'll do some samples tomorrow, and see if it does.



Wasn't the Nexabond. Maybe Katz glue?

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Another option is to tack it in strategic spots with a hot glue gun while the wood glue sets.

Was it HiPURformer ?

http://www.titebond.com/hipurformer/HiP ... ution.aspx

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

If you are using biscuits to attach the face frames I would use regular titebond. Assuming you have a decent plate joiner and biscuits kept in not too humid conditions, the swelling of the biscuits from the glue should hold the FFs in place after about 10 minutes (sometimes less). If your biscuits are old and swelled buy some new and keep them in a zip lock bag or glass jars with tight lids.
Another way to "clamp" them is to use pocket holes and screws made using a Kreg "pocket rocket" and bit. The pocket holes can be capped where they might be visible inside the cabinet. The Kreg jig is also handy for adding stretchers and parts to hang drawer slides on.
I've added face frames to euro cabinets using both those methods with good results.

I've removed crap boxes and progressively added stiff legs to support the granite. Build new boxes and reverse the process. If the boxes are junk why save them and go through some half arse face frame attachment. Box building is so fast and cheap even using the best plywood. This seems a continuation of throwing good money after bad. IMHO.

Tim

Point taken, Tim. The customers are adamant that the lower boxes stay. They are afraid of the granite breaking, and I won't bear the liability for any damage. If not for the granite, I would do a total redesign that makes the kitchen much more functional.
Normally, I wouldn't have pursued this job beyond the initial phone call, but it was a referral, and it happens to be my late godmother's granddaughter. They still might balk when I give them the price, though.
As far as the box building, I only use pre finished veneer plywood for the boxes, backs, drawer bottoms and shelves. As I tell customers, the only good thing about melamine is the price.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

is there any reason you can't assemble the face frame and then attach it as 1 piece to the boxes?

yes, there will be logistical concerns, but doing it this way would allow for it to be properly sanded then pre-finished

Yes Mike, the face frames will be fully assembled, stained and finished, and the hinge arm screwed to the back of the face frame, then attached to the boxes.
I'm probably way over thinking this, but I'm a fusspot for detail. I want the kitchen to be to my standards. Even if the homeowners sell the place, I want the new owners to have the benefit of my best effort.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

ahhh...IC...I had thought you were talking about glue for the FF joints...my bad

I guess all I can say is that I'd use 23ga. headless pin nails at angles (2 through each hole) to lock it in place 'til the glue dries.

the holes are so small they pretty much disappear with a small amount of colored filler

and also the fact that it is wipe clean straight out of the box ... doesn't need twenty coats of lacquer to make it hygienic ...

Well sorry but the prefinished plywood Alex is talking about requires no finishing. Not to mention it is pretty, structural, available in low and zero VOC, sustainable, lighter and oh did I mention superior in every way? There is and never will be any chipboard in my shop, or my home, or installed by me in any clients home. I use MDF for work surfaces, thats it, MDF's hard "cardboard" character makes a nearly perfect utility table, to be beat up in a shop.

Casework requires structure, all though I find the repurposing innovation of chipboard intriguing, it is simply a grossly inferior product. The melamine is bad enough, what really stinks is the poor souls who buy quite expensive veneered furniture only to discover the door just fell off because the crapwood crumbled away at the cup hinge. Or the dowels or confirmats were forced in the factory and the entire box is weak. Or the pozi screws were turned a tenth of a turn too far and the drawer slides are falling out. Or god forbid you have a slow leak at kitchen or bathroom sink and your whole cabinet swells up and disintegrates. I could go on and on about how ill and misinformed your remark is Murrmac.

Respectfully submitted.

Tim

Even with my tendonitis wracked elbows, I can manage 19mm sheets of the UV coated ply by myself. I wouldn't even try to shift a 5/8" sheet of melamine. I can usually install upper cabinets alone because they are much lighter.
My customer's eyes usually glaze over when I tell them that wet dishes won't make their' cabinets and shelves blister anymore.

About the consumer being fooled by veneered particle board, a number of years ago, a co worker asked me to examine a six piece "solid cherry" bedroom suite that he had bought from Ethan Allen's. He had been told by a salesman that it was all solid wood construction. I showed him what was solid, and what was veneered PC. About 20% of his $12k suite was real cherry.
He called Ethan Allen's headquarters in the U.S., and was told that the salesman would never say that it was all solid wood. He offered a full refund and some extra $'s after my friend played him the phone recording that he had made of the salesman giving his pitch!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Actually, isn't the answer on this forum always hot hide glue?

Steve

I can't believe that it has taken so long to come up with the most obvious solution! Ok, what gram strength?
Well, its a moot point now. I had told the client that I was taking most of the summer off, so the quote wouldn't come before September. They were fine with this as they weren't in any hurry. I emailed them today that I was just waiting for my lumber contact to come back from holidays to get a lumber price. They replied that they went with someone else because they didn't hear back from me. I'm quite happy to be moving on to some other jobs!
I'd like to thank everyone for all the suggestions offered, but if anyone remembers what the glue was, I'd still like to know. Even with a $50+ cost per bottle, the increase in productivity would be more than worth it. Many thanks!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker