Age groups, morals, and ethics aside, I guess my question boils down to "have paper contracts gone the way of transistor radios, walkmans and floppy discs?"
I'm not sure...
All that stuff is so "last century"
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| Contract stuff part 2 https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43569 |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Contract stuff part 2 |
Good Morning: Here's a question for the group. I am currently talking to a gentleman back east regarding the commission of a new guitar. We have been talking for a month or two now and there are many emails zipping about in the electronic netherworld. Things are changing so fast I wonder about paper contracts, are they becoming a thing of the past? My customer asked "shouldn't we have a more formal contract?" My question for the group is "do copies of emails and receipts from paypal constitute a formal contract?" I know several months ago we had a long running discussion about contracts. With the advent of email and things like paypal all of these negotiations and payments are out there forever and are basically in the public domain. I am hoping some of you in the legal profession can shed some light on this topic. Sitting here in ignorance... Mikey |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
With many things changing rapidly and zipping around, later on you will find out that each of you has different expectations, so your client will be disappointed in some respect. Regardless of what may constitute a contract, you need to put the final plan in writing for the sake of clarity. Furthermore, your client requested it. You cannot rely on a long string of piecemeal email to be clear. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
Sure your email exchanges can be construed as a contract -- but if you are handling the financials with a credit card the customer can complain to the card holder and the funds will be frozen. And if they side with him you get nothing -- and would have to sue long distance in small claims court for which you have to appear. Hopefully, you'll hear from some legal folks -- but to me its clear, if he wants a written contract why not? |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
Trust no one under the age of 40. |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
Age groups, morals, and ethics aside, I guess my question boils down to "have paper contracts gone the way of transistor radios, walkmans and floppy discs?" I'm not sure... All that stuff is so "last century"
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
A contract is a MUST! You need to state clearly and very precise what you are providing in detail. And state clearly and precisely what your client's responsibilities will be... Then you both need to sign it. If it is electronic (email) then I would have him scan his signiture and place it in the document. With a clear contract and a scanned signature you have all the legal documents in case of a dispute. If you do not know this person then I would personally make them verify they are of legal age to even sign a document. It has been known for an under age person to pose as an adult and sign a contract for service only to get the service and then say "I am under age and you can't hold me to that contract" The law will be on his side. (Ask me how I know this...) So protect yourself and your interests first and formost. Bob |
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| Author: | timoM [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
mhammond wrote: Age groups, morals, and ethics aside, I guess my question boils down to "have paper contracts gone the way of transistor radios, walkmans and floppy discs?" I'm not sure... All that stuff is so "last century" Actually in my experience it is the less formal handshake contract that is gone. The typical contract on a commercial construction project where we do millwork, cabinetry or furniture runs about 45 pages. Not to mention the paperwork involved with the various necessary insurance policies. Some residential clients ask for a full written contract now, if they are financing the bank may require it. I am sure a good attorney could draw up a contract pretty reasonably for a custom guitar. Not a great deal of liabilities involved. But I know you can buy a house with e-sign. Closing and all. Even the deed is emailed. Tim |
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| Author: | Michiyuki Kubo [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Contract stuff part 2 |
While it may be shifting ever so slightly, it is of my opinion that written contracts give the both parties some value as you can hold it in your hand. Many times when something is not physical and concrete and there is an abstract idea or in this case contract, both parties may differ change minds, forget, and possibly lose the feeling of that value. In case of a electronic "paper" trail it could be used in a legal circumstance, but why go that route of uncertainty? It may take you a whole 30 min to get an official document set up and printed. You could put as much jargon into it as you need, but essentially it is best for both parties to have that concrete evidence in their hands. My guess is that if the question is, Is the paper contract age over? No it is not. Will it ever be? This is certainly possible, future technologies may change this. Is it the best for you to use paper contracts? That is ultimately for you to decide, and my advice is yes to do so. |
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