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| D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42349 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
 I finally got around to resetting that D28 neck (some may recall). All went well. Got a fret plus of height over the new bridge. But, I missed all of the scalloping on the fretboard until I was ready to attach new bridge. Is there an acceptable way to fill in these divots? They are evident on 9 frets. Thanks, Mike |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
There are a couple of ways to fix it but it would be best to not have frets on the board. The first way would be to use the same sanding dust to fill them and then sand the board down to level them out. The spots will still be visible because it will not be the same as the surrounding area. You could blend it in with a bit of stain and a small wire brush to fake the grain back in over the spots. The other way is much more involved but I have used it successfully in the past. That would be to use an x-acto blade and slice down into the wood. You would do this on an angle with the grain. When you have made a number of slices then gently lift each slice from center of the divot. Be very careful not to loosen up the ends. All you are doing is bringing the actual wood up just enough to level out the divot When you have lifted all the wood you will have what appears to be little bridges with a space under them. Now you would take sanding dust from the board mixed with glue and fill under the slivers you just lifted. Smooth it off as best you can making sure the actual wood is at the surface. Let it dry and sand it smooth, again using a small wire brush to fake the grain (or you can use an X-acto blade to give it some texture. Maybe someone else has a better way of doing it but that is how I do it. Bob |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
The owner says cost is not an issue. And, he is not worried about hurting value (though I am). Should I just get a fingerboard heat blanket, remove, and replace? Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Btw, I do not want to remove the neck again. But I will if thats the best solution. There is already a steam hole at the 15th fret. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
And if so, should I opt for an adjustable truss rod (it has a non-adjustable) |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
As an added note: I see you re-fretted that board but didn't sand it. I always level the board when doing a fret job. The reason is exactly the problem you have. Those appear to be pretty deep but may have been able to be mostly sanded out when leveling the board. I say leveling but I do it with a radius block (leveling to me means lengthwise) I level it lightly with 180 grit, then 220. After that I use 320 and then 400 without the block. You have to watch the fret lot depth and may even have to re-cut them a bit but I usually just do that free hand with my razor saw. Bob Just read you last 2 posts. No need to remove the neck, just pull the frets and do as I explain in the top of this post. The fretboard will look like new even if you can't get them out 100% you probably will not even notice if they are very shallow. Good luck, Bob |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Is there an acceptable way to fill in these divots? They are evident on 9 frets. Thanks, Mike Yo Mike, For quick and dirty fill job...Bondo works magic. Acceptable is a value judgement so lets not go there.  and so is everything else from there to the new solid black quartered ebony fretboard which is really what your client wants and can afford anyways. You getting the gist of me drift here. Oh ya and definably a two way adjustable rod....just in case...with the clients initials inlayed in balonly on the truss rod cover cap of course. Then there is the retouching of the finishing ...just to bring it all up to snuff. 
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| Author: | RusRob [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
So it is a 70's martin? I just recently did a neck reset and bridge replace on one. it was one of the early 70's with the intonation problems. Somehow at the factory they used a misplaced jig to set the bridge position which caused an intonation problem on a lot of guitars. The fix was to make a slightly over sized bridge, fill the peg holes in the top and bridge plate and set the new bridge and mark the saddle in the right position and then re-drill the holes. as far as putting a new truss rod in.... I would do everything I could not to do that since you have to pull the neck and fretboard pull the old square rod out and re-route the channell. You also have to drill the upper transverse brace to gain access to the rod.... Lots of work and none of it fun. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
RusRob wrote: So it is a 70's martin? I just recently did a neck reset and bridge replace on one. it was one of the early 70's with the intonation problems. Somehow at the factory they used a misplaced jig to set the bridge position which caused an intonation problem on a lot of guitars. The fix was to make a slightly over sized bridge, fill the peg holes in the top and bridge plate and set the new bridge and mark the saddle in the right position and then re-drill the holes. as far as putting a new truss rod in.... I would do everything I could not to do that since you have to pull the neck and fretboard pull the old square rod out and re-route the channell. You also have to drill the upper transverse brace to gain access to the rod.... Lots of work and none of it fun. Yo RusRob, who cares if its a Martin or an Estiphan! The owner says cost is not an issue...so ya lots of work to be done and its all fun, laughing all the way to the bank. Mike, someone wanna pay you to learn your chops. Dude thats wet shirt time for sure. And don't non you dudes rant at the ?adma about ethics. If the ax needs it and the client can spring the bucks it would be unethical for the luthier not to do the work just cuz its lots of no fun work. Blessings |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
OK, everone hold on. Especially u Padma! lol. Russ, I did not do the original work on this guitar. It has the classic top belly problem. AND, the under lacquer pickguard wich was causing a crack. And intonation. Etc. I have an oversized bridge ready to go. There won't be much needed in relocating the bridge, saddle matic has it almost in same exact location. So I was not going to refill holes. Unless I hear different. I can pull the frets, and sand down, but I bet some of those divots are 1/32 or more deep. Is this aceptable? And, pulling frets damages slots due to ebony chipping. Help here please. This guitar has experienced classic nut/saddle/bridge shaping to deal with top belly. New nut, new saddle, and oversized bridge is ready to go as soon as I have a solution for the divots. Padma... say NO to the Bondo. Fumes are BADDDD! Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
I did a little measuring will a digital caliper. There is a square end on the depth meter. So this will tend to minimize depth measurement. But the most I'm getting is 5-6 thousandths. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
I would say that Padma knows best so I guess I would follow his advice. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Bob, please expand. The divots are about 5-6 thou deep, though probably deeper but no 1/32. My biggest fear is chipping the fretboard while removing frets. Sand down sounds good |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Yo Mike...ya gotta learn how to refret sooner or later...besides Todd is right. @ Bob...  ?adma, well him really don't know nuffin about diddly squat...but me sure isopinionated eh!
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Yank the frets, plane or sand it smooth, refret. If he says money is no object, make him prove it. |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
rather than hogging off tons of fretboard to get down to the level of the divots, i'd go with a cyanoacrylate/wood powder spot fill....the spots will look a bit glossier when finished in the right lighting, but the fretboard will retain a whole lot more beef |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
I am not sure if you stated that the owner wants the divots removed. I know you said cost is not a factor, but you were doing other work, too. As long as you got this far, you might want to let the owner know the situation and see if they really want them out. If the current owner plays in a manner that causes this type of damage, why bother. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Mike: Using a larger bridge to fix the intonation problem is looked down on a bit by the Martin purists. It also can add a bit more weight to the bridge. Given that plus you have some fingerboard problems you could use a John Arnold idea and kill two birds with one stone. Replace the fingerboard with one that is slightly shorter in scale length so that the present bridge will be in the correct location. The only down side is that the board has been changed and the 14th fret will have moved a bit toward the headstock. Worth considering in my mind. Tom |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
As it turns out, there is no real reason to use the oversized bridge, i have other bridges (regular) on hand and will check them out with fit and finish. I just ordered an oversize in case there were unforseen issues under the old bridge (there were not) Now, I'm kind of leaning towards the refret option. But I don't like pulling frets because of chipping. Is that just a fact of life? Is there a good way to minimize chipping? Or were you counting on the sanding to repair that? The current owner is the son. His dad does not play it anymore, dad did the damage. The son is no way near the grinder his dad was. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
RusRob wrote: That would be to use an x-acto blade and slice down into the wood. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier ... divot.html There is a re-fret involved as well. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
frets.com |
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| Author: | Frank Ford [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
That's an "interesting" mix of replies above, but I hope you can easily see which ones have merit. Even without having the guitar in hand, I think I can be confident in saying that replacing or removing the fingerboard, or installing an adjustable rod will serve no useful purpose. As to the divots, they are purely a cosmetic issue, and best left to the owner to decide if it's important to try to fill them. Now, if that photo is of the neck AFTER refretting, I suggest you determine whether the frets are level and even enough to achieve the desired setup before proceeding with any fill. Should you decide to fill, remember to be extremely careful about any cross-grain scratching or uneven leveling of the fill material - it's easy to make a bigger mess than you expect. Remember that any fill will tend to be visible in the future no matter what it may look like just after it's done, and that the divots never cause any difficulty in playability - something to add to the conversation with the owner. If you didn't refret after resetting, you might want to consider doing that now so you can level the board and make the divots less objectionable in the process. If you are seriously worried about pulling chips when you take the frets out, please take time to read more on the subject and work on technique. It is reasonable to expect to refret a D-28 with no damage from chipping the board. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Awesome reply Frank! I'm guessing you have years of experience. 
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Wow! Cought the attention of Frank Ford and John Hall! Thanks Frank, I'll look into the technique. I studied a lot of stuff from John befor doing the rest and it worked out well. I guess I was under the impression that a well setuo guitar with divots like those would experience intonation problems. Mike |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: D28 Neck Reset, Fretboard scalloping |
Franks advice is sound. He had been doing this a long time. One thing Frank didn't speak on was about the intonation issues and the bulging top. Frank and I are authorized Martin repair guys. I don't see any benefit of pulling and replacing a fretboard for intonation. You can replace a bridge a lot easier. This top bulge may have a loose brace or a warped plate. So first fix structure. 2nd look close inside the guitar. Finding a loose brace can be difficult. Often the area at the bridge can deform from cold creep from the glue over time. So look at bridge and plate structure and braces. determine if they are sound. My guess is that the plate area is going to need addressing if the bulge is sever enough. One big advantage here is that you may have a large rosewood plate. The guitar will benefit from the removal of the rosewood plate and replace with a smaller maple. this link can show how the top can be fixed and allow to reposition the bridge slot and holes without moving the bridge. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... ly-1193085 this may be about the same period of your guitar and may have similar issues |
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