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| I need a bigger compressor https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42180 |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I need a bigger compressor |
So I have this 1.5 "miracle of modern marketing" HP compressor that was on edge when I spray lacquer, but as soon as I use Blues Creek inlay tool, that compressor just won't cut it if I need to run the tool more than 1 minute. So I need something bigger. I'm looking at this 2 HP belt driven compressor, made by swan air, that does about 225 l/min FAD (that seems to convert to about 8 CFM). Will this be enough for any wood shop needs? They said it's designed for motorcycle shops (that runs impact wrenches all the time) but not really adequate for car shops (where they need to bust bigger nuts, etc.) but since I'm not doing any auto work, just need to be able to run Blues Creek tool for more than a few minutes at a time without the compressor going nuts (those direct drive thing are loud) and be able to blow air too. I have not used air guns much at all because my current compressor just can't keep up, and air guns uses up air like crazy. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
What are the air requirements for the inlay tool? If it isn't listed on the tool, just ask John Hall. The 2hp machine should have at lease a 20 gallon tank, and that will help keep the cycling to a minimum. Alex |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
.9 cu ft @ 90 psi You want the largest you can afford. I am am using a 5 hp 60 gal in my shop. A good 2 stage may be your best bet |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Air tools like die grinders and orbital sanders eat a lot of air. My 20 gallon compressor isn't really sufficient for these task for a very long time. It's fine for spraying and such so I can get buy since I really don't use those other tools much. My mechanic body repair friends told me you need at least a 60 gallon minimum or larger for sanding tools and grinders....Mike |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
I thought so too, but the product manual said it needed 4 cfm and I thought my compressor could do it, but it turned out it needed more. I'm looking at something with a 85 liter tank and does 225 l/min., wonder if that's enough. I won't be using major air motor tool however... most of them are electric. |
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| Author: | Beth Mayer [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
When I look at HVLP sprayers, they all seem to call for very large compressors....like the 30 gal or larger size |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
A HVLP conversion gun will run at a lower cfm. I used a Wagner with my small compressor for three kitchens with no problems. Alex |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
I think it's because spray guns run at lower psi, typically 25, and so there's no need for compressors to be as large (they can put out more cfm at lower pressure), whereas air tools require around 90 psi. |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Many compressor can deliver the PSI's but for a very short time since they have small storage tanks. You run out of air quick and the compressor cant fill the little tank fast enough. Things like brad and finish nailers work okay on these little tanks because your not running the tool non stop like a grinder would run. There is a pause between shots. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
I just got this in the shop today... I had to move it up 2 flights of stairs myself because no one was around to help. Luckily someone walked by and gave me a hand with lifting it... The sucker is heavy! Next time if I needed to move this myself I'm taking this thing apart. The pump is pretty much 100% cast iron, making this thing really heavy. (all the direct drive ones uses aluminum pumps with cast iron sleeve) Once set up though, it worked beautifully. Still quite loud but not as loud (I'd say a good 5 decibels less than a direct drive) and I can still hear the background music in the shop with the compressor running with me sitting next to it... so it's not that loud (draining the tank was MUCH louder). At first it kept running but the tank wouldn't pressurize, then I realized I forgot to install the drain valve (it was not installed at the factory, but included with the machine). I should probably build a mini workbench above this compressor, and then close the sides off to soundproof it. I can literally run the air pencil grinder all day (basically more than an instant) before the compressor kicked on, and when it does the tank pressure still climbs albeit slower with the pencil grinder running, so no worry about burning out the compressor because of an inlay project. Same with running spray guns. This compressor is designed for motorcycle repair shops by the way... now I wonder about running air sanders and stuff (not that I need to, what advantage does an air sander have over electric ones?) |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Looks good.... You may want a bigger tank still, though.... Remember - capacity of air tools is listed in Volume - either Cubic meters/min or Cubic ft/min.... and this is a LOT of air.... that 4.4 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) device will consume about 0.2 cubic meters of air per minute.... Your 85 l tank = 0.085 cubic meters - but your pressure factor gives you about 4x this.. so you have 0.34 cubic meters available at the device use pressure... Likely, in real life - after pressure drop... you will get about 1 minute of use before you are out of air..... When you are talking about tanks.. Of course, most of us here talk in Gallons and you are talking in Liters... so Gallons x 3.85 = liters... That 85 liter tank is around 22 gallons - which is quite a small tank for most of us.... Many folks here are using either 50 or 100 gallon tanks... which equates to tanks in the 200 to 400 liter capacity... Considerably more reserve capacity.... I would look into a tall, narrow tank and mount it vertically... Then, mount the pump you already own up on top.. This way - it takes up the minimum floorspace.... Thanks |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Well my budget only allowed for this, and it was stretched to the limit. I had to sell my macbook pro in order to pay for this (rest went into rent). I guess I could always add an external tank, because tanks are cheap. However the problem is, I have not seen a vertical compressor in Taiwan at all, all of them are horizontal. Compressors, at least belt driven ones generally come with tanks proportional to its HP rating... 1 and 2 HP came with 85 liters, 3HP came with 100 liters, 5hp came with 155 liters, and so on. Not sure what a bigger tank would do for me, if I were running an air sander chances are a bigger tank would not make up for the air consumption. I don't know but I would think it would take forever to fill up a 50 gallon tank at 8cfm... |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
the reasons I've heard bandied around about a larger tank is that there is a smoother 'push' behind the air and also it allows for spraying longer without the compressor kicking in (which supposedly causes a sputter at the gun)...I use an old Campbell Hausfeld twin tank wheel barrow that puts out about 8cfm at 40 psi and have had it kick in many times while spraying and have never noticed an issue...actually the compressor is perfectly balanced for the air cap and needle size I use and will just exactly keep up with my system when I'm going full bore I experimented with an additional tank system once and that was a grand failure...not sure if I was just going about it wrong, or if it really doesn't work...for one thing you have to consider just how you get an external tank hooked up and the ramifications of air supply and lost air flow due to friction, etc... |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Most jobs don't require you to plow away for hours using air tools constantly.... You do a short amount of work... and the tank can refill while you are setting up for the next part.... Personally.. Unless you are doing Auto body work on cars - don't bother with air sanders.... Electric work great and you don't have to carry around the huge air lines... and air files/air sanders take up a HUGE amount of air.... Now - with the air router thing... Similar deal... Set up for making one cut... make the cut.. Then let the tank fill back up.... A bigger tank gives you MUCH more working time... like 5+ minutes vs 1 minute.... |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
I tried air sanders and the thing I hated about them was the air hose. It much heavier and doesn't move around as easy as the electric cord on an electric sander. So I went back to my electric sanders....Mike |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
So what are air sanders for? Why do people use them vs. electric? Do they have any advantage over electric ones? |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
I just built a box over my compressor because it was still quite loud (although not as loud as a direct drive). I measured it with an iphone decibel meter and it comes to about 92 decibels... I made a box out of MDF, and since the compressor sits in a corner I built a 3 sided box, with a workbench on top of the box where my drill press went... The top is the same heavy particleboard top that was an office table... the metal stand was discarded because it was falling apart. So now I ended up having more space in the machine room because now the compressor and the drill press occupied the same space. On top of that the sound level dropped to 82 decibels rather than 92 while running. The box isn't finished enough, I still need to add a baffle to the top, seal all gaps and add acoustic foam inside the box. I hope to reduce it another 5 decibels by doing this. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I need a bigger compressor |
Speaking of compressors I was reading this thread the other day thinking- I'd LIKE a bigger compressor, but mine's just fine. Not even 15 minutes later I was using the air grinder when mine cut out. Checked the fuse, checked the outlet, tried to reset, motor wasn't even hot. Nada. SO unless I can figure the issue out- I guess I will in the market for a bigger compressor as well. I bought this 8gal thing because it uses oil and it was cheap. In the end- you get what you pay for. I'd like a speedaire or an Ingersol Rand this time instead of a cheap unit. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. Until then I'm going to check the wiring on this thing. I actually liked it until it crapped out. |
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