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Headstock, slotted or pegged?
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42172		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Headstock, slotted or pegged?
Hi guys, I am working on my first build which is a parlor guitar and I am just starting to work on the neck and headstock.

My question is about using standard peg tuners or to go to a slotted headstock with classical type tuners.

I am curious about the string angle created by each of the two styles and what effect it has on tone and function. The slotted headstock creates a greater angle on the strings going over the nut and I am wondering if that actually has a bearing on tone.

And also what does it do as far as function? Is it harder to tune a guitar that has a greater angle over the nut? And is that called ramp angle or does that just pertain to the saddle?

This is a new area for me since after a number of years repairing guitars I am finally starting to build.

Thanks for any info you can help with.

Bob
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
I hate slot heads as string changes are harder. So my vote is paddle....
Author:  gozierdt [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
I've done several slot head SS guitars. The main problem I experienced was the center strings hitting the upper edge of the slot on the way to the tuner shaft. That's a problem that is hard to draw in two dimensions. Other than that, if you're building a steel string slothead be sure to buy steel shaft tuners. Classical tuners typically have a plastic cover over the shaft, which I suspect wouldn't work well with the smaller diameters and higher tensions of steel strings (although I haven't had direct experience).
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
Good advice from the above - I happen to be a sucker for slotheads altho they are a whole lot harder to build. In particular they seem to look "right" on 12 fret guitars, paddleheads look better on 14 fretters. On an older style guitar they just have the right vib. I don't think they are any harder to restring, but there are a couple of tricks. As Gene says, make sure you use the right tuners - there are some nice reproductions available if you want a vintage look. Do not use classical tuners on a steel string or vice versa. If you decide to use some of the 3 on a plate tuners, drill the holes very accurately (with a drill press and jig) or they will bind. The issue of strings hitting the sides of the slots is a real problem but can be minimized by both the way you ramp the slots and by the way you string - on this one I could have made the slots a little wider

Image

As far as break angle over the nut, I've heard arguments that it makes a difference (altho I don't remember what the difference was) but frankly I doubt that you will hear it.
Author:  nyazzip [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
i don't think i've seen a slotted 12 before...nice !
i also prefer the look of slotted even though they are more complicated and more fussy to string up. i'd like to see a slotted archtop or les paul. hmm
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
Often a slotted peg head will be at a shallower angle with respect to the fingerboard, so the break angle of the strings is not that much different from that of a paddle head.
I've built parlors with either. For a "first" guitar I would suggest the paddlehead. It is easier to make and fit machine heads to.
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
Thanks for the advice guys.

That is a beautiful 12 string Freeman. I don't think I have ever seen one with a slotted headstock before.

I have never owned or worked on a slotted headstock so I don't really know much about them other than they are used on Classical guitars but have seen a number of them on parlor guitars so that is why the post.

I have heard they effect the tone because of the pressure on the nut but I am not sure it would be a difference you could hear and wanted to see what you guys thought.

Thanks again,
Bob
Author:  nyazzip [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
i wouldn't worry about the relationship of sound with regards to break angle. if you feel that superior sound is achieved with a greater angle, then as a builder you can custom design that aspect in to your model, paddle or slotted, and then promote it accordingly, and fetch a handsome sum!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
I am also a sucker for slot heads.

It is a design issue that you need to commit to early on so it is important only in that respect right now. On your first guitar, however, you have much more serious issues to contend with! Pick whichever your heart chooses and go from there.
Author:  arie [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
one can achieve the same break angle with either slot or paddle style headstock. depending upon design, it's simply a matter of changing the inclination of the peghead to account for the offset of the rollers, or the installed height of the posts. no need to over-complicate.

imo, slot heads look nice on parlors.
Author:  arie [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
gozierdt wrote:
I've done several slot head SS guitars. The main problem I experienced was the center strings hitting the upper edge of the slot on the way to the tuner shaft. That's a problem that is hard to draw in two dimensions.


it does get crowded sometimes but it's an easy fix. wind your strings from center out on #3 and #4 to give yourself more room. use more windings to position the exit wrap to avoid hitting the edges of the slots.

"wrap" looks funny in type.
Author:  Freeman [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
If it helps any, I recently built an 00 sized guitar with a slot head and did a partial build thread on another forum. On page 1 I do the basic scarf jointed neck, on page 5 I finish the head.

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Acoust ... p/35542693
Author:  SteveT [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
douglas ingram wrote:
I am also a sucker for slot heads.
+1

I've built a parlor & a trio of 00's with slotheads. A 12-string is a work in progress:

Attachment:
Tuners Top View - 1.JPG
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Headstock, slotted or pegged?
I think slot heads generally look nicer, and with generally lighter machines and less wood they save some weight if you think it might be top heavy... with a small body and normal sized head and neck this can be a concern.

Changing strings is certainly more of a hassle but not that big of a deal IMO.
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